The VIPER Garage

Generation-specific Viper Forums => RT/10 & GTS Viper Discussions => Topic started by: BADACR on June 14, 2012, 11:28:18 AM

Title: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 14, 2012, 11:28:18 AM
Well, we started the process of pulling the engine out of my ACR this week.
My friend Ron Miller in Calgary will be doing the build on it by the sounds of it. He's the "worlds fastest srt10" and major viper enthusiest/builder, and Canadian Stryker reseller.
Going to do a full build, billet mains, forged rods (haven't decided on H Beam or I beam yet, I beam is double the price, but good for up to 180hp per cylinder...).
Blower pistons, custom grind blower cam, slow bleed lifters, hardened pushrods, beehive springs, roller rockers and maybe even stryker heads, or just have Ron do his magic with my existing heads.
I can get a 13psi paxton pulley, so likely will be running 10-13 psi on the new build. It should be a very nasty car when done, but it's parked for the year, hopefully have it ready for summer 2013.
I will keep you posted with progress as things move along!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 14, 2012, 05:52:07 PM
Sounds like a fun build.
Dirtysocks in Ontario is selling his fully built motor for $11,000.
It has 3 dyno pulls on it. Thought I would at least mention it.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 14, 2012, 08:06:58 PM
 ???  Why is he selling his engine?  What happened to his big hp single turbo build?  Didn't work out for him?

I'm looking forward to another big power Viper in Western Canada.  Getting to be a few around now.  The only other one I know is Don Campbell's 950whp Paxton, but he told me that he detuned it to about 750-800whp I think. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 15, 2012, 04:37:56 AM
He is parting out the entire car.  If you need some parts he is a great guy to deal with.  More money this way than selling the car I guess.  I did see his car looked fairly complete at one point. Big single in front of the fan. Looked completely different.   
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 15, 2012, 08:16:48 AM
Very Cool!
We are doing some pretty extensive mods to my engine so it will be built exactly the way we want it.
I'm curious what mods are done to the fellow in Ontario's engine?
I was going to disable the nitrous on my car for safety, but instead we are doing Billet I beam con-rods instead of the Forged units, so the bottom end will be built for approx 1800hp.
I would like to get 1khp without nitrous, but we will see. I'm eager to see the difference the Stryker package will make!! They look so awesome, let alone adding 150hp over my stock heads!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 15, 2012, 08:21:45 AM
I got the paxton out, intercooler out, intake manifold is off, headers unhooked. Just need to unhook the starter and any other hoses/sensors that may be hiding on me, then yanking the engine/trans out as one piece.
Anybody know if there's room to pull it all with the rad in place, or does it need to come out first?
I have a crane and engine leveler.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 15, 2012, 08:24:07 AM
His engine has Carrilo rods, coated pistons , billet mains, ported stock heads , roller rockers , custom gen 3 intake.    Looks like a decent motor to me. It's advertised on the viperalley.  Again it's a complete part out as far as the car goes.
I would also love a set of strykers but the cost of them keeps me away.  
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 15, 2012, 08:28:24 AM
I did mine as one piece.  A leveler is a must.  The intake does make it tight.  But when I did mine I also had the roe on there.  U may also need to put the car up on blocks to prevent the tail housing of the tranny stopping you from tilting the engine steep enough during removal.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 15, 2012, 08:31:18 AM
Thanks Joel!
I already have the intake manifold off, car is up 1 foot on the front. Does the radiator need to come out, or should it sneak past?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 15, 2012, 08:36:24 AM
I never took mine out.  Don't remember it even being tight in that area.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 15, 2012, 08:39:39 AM
Thats great! I'm on the home stretch now then!
Engine and trans mounts and see what she says.. I have to drop the tranny back off in Edmonton as it's worse now than before the complete build on it.
Then off to Calgary to drop the engine off with Ron Miller (canadian Stryker rep and viper master!)
He figures a 3-4 month turnaround, but it's going to be fully balanced, file fit piston rings etc. It will be perfect when I get it back!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Viper Specialty on June 15, 2012, 05:00:13 PM
If you have any issues or want a second opinion, we always have room for another engine build, and offer several standard build options depending on your goals. We have several options that nobody else offers. We can turn around even most top level builds in as little as 30 days with expediting [pending custom part manufacturer approval]
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 16, 2012, 09:00:56 AM
Hi Dan,
I appreciate that!
I have committed to taking my engine to Ron Miller in Calgary. Hes a friend and awesome builder. Also the Stryker heads distributor, which we are going to be installing as well.
It's not too far from where we live, and we also have family in Calgary to stay the night at so works out well.
Thanks again!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 17, 2012, 10:24:28 AM
Can anybody confirm if the bolts that hold the intake manifold to the heads are strong enough to pull from at four points on the heads to pull engine/trans out together?
if not, does a lifting plate need to be built or is there another spot that is the best for lifting at?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 17, 2012, 10:30:16 AM
When I pulled mine out I used the power steering bolts on the sides of the head.  The intake bolts are small and personally I don't recommend them. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 17, 2012, 10:43:36 AM
Thanks Joel. What about on the back of the engine. I have  an engine leveler that has four mounting points. The bolt at the back holding the coil pack bracket is much bigger, would that be enough to hoist from on the back side?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 17, 2012, 10:58:58 AM
To my memory I only had my leveler at the coil and the front of the head.  Possibly a third mount somewhere. But those were the main two.  You should be ok with that. Maybe a third one for safety.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 17, 2012, 11:01:24 AM
That's perfect! It should be sitting on the ground tonight!
It's going to be a LOOOONNNNNGGGGGG Summer waiting to get the engine back from the builder haha
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 17, 2012, 11:36:36 AM
Yeah just having mine down for over a month is no fun.  Especially with the short season. Now that I'm back to work I barely have any time period.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 17, 2012, 05:54:58 PM
Hyd. coupler to the clutch ... I can unscrew my shifter handle from the driver's seat...  Unclip the transmission harness on D side 3/4 way up the trans.  I hit my reverse light switch on the tunnel frame and broke the plastic so I recommend removing that before pulling engine ...

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 18, 2012, 07:26:13 AM
Will do!
I didn't get home from work until 1am this morning doing server conversions for a couple big clients, so didn't end up getting to work on the car at all.
I might have time to put a couple hours into it tonight, and hopefully get it out.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: oldcolt on June 18, 2012, 04:36:18 PM
When do you plan on coming down Sheldon?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 19, 2012, 12:02:10 AM
 :headscratch:

I forgot to mention that t would be worth 20whp if you hone the Intake manifold on a stock engine.  On a Paxton there would be much more power gained from the hone.  Adrln in Edm has a hone - not sure if he'll do it for you, but with several months to get it done he probably would....
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 19, 2012, 09:09:34 AM
When do you plan on coming down Sheldon?

Hey Burt, Welcome to the viper garage!
I have been so darn busy I haven't got the engine out of the car yet, but I'm thinking we may be there around the Calgary Stampede week so we can see some friends at the same time.
Totally depends when I get the engine out of the car, but it's very close..
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 19, 2012, 09:11:15 AM
:headscratch:

I forgot to mention that t would be worth 20whp if you hone the Intake manifold on a stock engine.  On a Paxton there would be much more power gained from the hone.  Adrln in Edm has a hone - not sure if he'll do it for you, but with several months to get it done he probably would....

Well, we are doing stryker heads, I'm thinking it would be great to go to the gen 3 style, and get a gen 3 intake which would REALLY help the looks under the hood if it's do-able.
I will talk to Ron more once we are at that stage to see.
Ahhh shoot, would also have to get a different paxton charge-tube setup if that was the case.... I will do some thinking!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 19, 2012, 11:16:18 PM
... and Throttle body.  Injectors might not fit?

Clint has a 1 piece Gen 3 manifold for sale if you want, but the one piece can't be ported and from what Dan (VS) posted you'd probably LOSE hp as compared to a stock Gen 2 manifold. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 20, 2012, 12:45:31 PM
Yeah........ I will just do some candy apple red paint and dress everything up as sexxy as possible with the gen 2 stuff.
I just love the looks of the gen 3 engine with the polished intake and painted valve covers!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 20, 2012, 01:45:10 PM
You'll need spacers if you use Gen 3 valve covers.  Personally, I like the Gen 2 intake best, it's much more imposing.  Some guys polish the intake, but that takes a lot of work to maintain ... and I hate maintaining aluminium.

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 29, 2013, 12:15:43 PM
Sheldon decided to disassemble his engine himself.  Here's what he found.

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7366/ok8a.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/ok8a.jpg/)
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 29, 2013, 01:02:14 PM
A bit of JB Weld, and a good splash of Holy Water is all she needs to get back to the races!  :driving:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on July 29, 2013, 04:32:05 PM
Those look like creampuff pistons?
I know all to well the feeling of this. Amazing what a little detonation can do.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 29, 2013, 05:26:23 PM
Yessir! Stock 2000 pistons!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on August 03, 2013, 09:15:24 PM
Wow..."..
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on August 03, 2013, 09:24:45 PM
804whp on Nitrous with a stock engine. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on August 03, 2013, 09:43:23 PM
That will do it
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 06, 2013, 08:30:52 AM
Pretty minor damage in my opinion. I thought this was lucky!
Unlucky if you count the list of everything else that the car has required, but lucky in terms of being able to get it going with a gasket set and a new slug (if I wasn't beefing it up)
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 05, 2013, 05:13:14 PM
Just a quick update!
We dropped the engine off at the machine shop yesterday. They are going to be installing the new K1 Rods, and custom coated wiseco pistons.
I have Tony from JTSVP working on a custom grind cam that will be NASTY!
Slow bleed lifters, 1.7 ratio T&D rockers, new valve springs and a port and polish on the heads.
a 12psi pulley, and new tuning from Torrie at Unleashed Tuning and I might hear this beast run in 4-6 weeks!!! Getting excited now, other than we will likely have snow by then...
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on September 05, 2013, 05:28:35 PM
Sounds like a nice complete package.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 05, 2013, 06:02:15 PM
Yes, there are more minor details (timing set, aftermarket harmonic balancer, hardened pushrods, titanium retainers, TNT total seal file fit rings).
I am very excited, it's been a long overdue project to get back on the road and kick my Vette buddies asses!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on September 05, 2013, 06:05:34 PM
I can't stress enough to look into rod bearing issues on these car. The more I've been looking into it, the more failures I see. Even gen 4's are falling.

I'm gonna be checking mine out within the next month. I'm pretty sure they will be wore out even after some of the mods I have done.  We shall see I guess.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 05, 2013, 07:13:11 PM
Order the trap door oil pan kit from JonB right away.  Only takes about 15 min to install it.

Your ACR has an oil pressure bypass relief valve that Joel, John and I are looking for - Only came on ACRs  ...

Tell your engine builder to use Gen 4 bearings and machine the block as shown on this site.  Joel`crankshaft mod can be done in a couple hours and should make a difference as well. 

Who`s porting your heads?   Switch to Beehive valve springs.  Align hone your intake manifold for another 20-35whp (about $250).

Glad it`s finally happening.  Diamond or Ross forged pistons?

I have the new Total seal custom made ring set for std size forged pistons and will be sending them back unless you can use them.  Custom ordered for supercharger with stepped ring.  Also have a set of .15`raidial wall thickness Hastings rings new.

If you get desperate when assembling I do have a spare intake and exhaust gaskets and a set of head gaskets on my shelf.  If you use them you`ll need to replace them though  (My in stock parts).
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 05, 2013, 08:33:06 PM
I can't stress enough to look into rod bearing issues on these car. The more I've been looking into it, the more failures I see. Even gen 4's are falling.

I'm gonna be checking mine out within the next month. I'm pretty sure they will be wore out even after some of the mods I have done.  We shall see I guess.

What is required for this Joel?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 05, 2013, 08:38:27 PM
I was looking into the gen 4 oilpan conversion. It's a higher capacity setup.
What is the advantage to using gen 4 bearings instead of what the engine "should" have?
The engine shop is porting the heads, they have a guy there, fully CNC certified etc.
The springs will be recommended by Tony, for what is required for the custom cam with .601 lift. The car already has "double" springs in it similar to the upgraded Roe springs we put in my SRT10. But I don't think they will handle that high of lift, so will get changed regardless.
I didn't want diamond pistons, I requested Wiseco pistons, that have the special coating on the skirts, and on the tops specific for boost and nitrous.
The rings are also special TNT rings as mentioned, for boost and nitrous. They also have a specific orientation for the same use.
The only concern, is the slow bleed lifters are hard to get right now, sean had 10 on the shelf I think, tony only had a few. A set of aftermarket race lifters are going to cost about 800-1000 bucks if I can't find mopar slow bleed. Either way, it needs done.
Getting excited, and really curious what it will put down for power with over double the boost, and a fully built motor.
Order the trap door oil pan kit from JonB right away.  Only takes about 15 min to install it.

Your ACR has an oil pressure bypass relief valve that Joel, John and I are looking for - Only came on ACRs  ...

Tell your engine builder to use Gen 4 bearings and machine the block as shown on this site.  Joel`crankshaft mod can be done in a couple hours and should make a difference as well. 

Who`s porting your heads?   Switch to Beehive valve springs.  Align hone your intake manifold for another 20-35whp (about $250).

Glad it`s finally happening.  Diamond or Ross forged pistons?

I have the new Total seal custom made ring set for std size forged pistons and will be sending them back unless you can use them.  Custom ordered for supercharger with stepped ring.  Also have a set of .15`raidial wall thickness Hastings rings new.

If you get desperate when assembling I do have a spare intake and exhaust gaskets and a set of head gaskets on my shelf.  If you use them you`ll need to replace them though  (My in stock parts).
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on September 05, 2013, 08:49:05 PM
You only need the gen 4 bearings if you do the gen4 block mod. Pic are on this site under the how to.

I have some used slow bleeds that I changed out last year just because. I'm sure they are still good.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 05, 2013, 08:56:30 PM
You only need the gen 4 bearings if you do the gen4 block mod. Pic are on this site under the how to.

I have some used slow bleeds that I changed out last year just because. I'm sure they are still good.

Thanks Joel. The block mod is worth the time/money to do? It helps in oiling, or whats the scoop?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on September 05, 2013, 09:23:10 PM
Any and all oil mods are worth the effort. Especially when the motor is out and at the machine shop.

It is suppose to help deliver more volume to the bearings.  The gen 4 mod is just a small cut along the moon of the mains oil hole. Are gen 2/3 have just a drilled hole. Gen 4 has a hole with a slit on one side of the hole. Simple mod for a machine shop.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 05, 2013, 11:15:24 PM
Sheldon, what did your rod bearings look like when you took the engine apart?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 05, 2013, 11:46:22 PM
Thanks Joel! I will read up on that ASAP!
Ted, the bearing on the broken piston had indication of detonation.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 06, 2013, 12:40:21 AM
Thanks Joel! I will read up on that ASAP!
Ted, the bearing on the broken piston had indication of detonation.

Was it #3?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 06, 2013, 08:51:36 AM
Was it #3?

Shoot, I'm not positive... let me check a picture quick..
Ok, it was passenger side, second slug in from the front.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on September 06, 2013, 09:03:27 AM
That's #4. Same journal but I don't think it get the double cross drill like # 3 gets.
Still doesn't surprise me
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 06, 2013, 09:22:16 AM
That's #4. Same journal but I don't think it get the double cross drill like # 3 gets.
Still doesn't surprise me

It wasn't an oiling issue at all, that slug got hammered down before TDC and caused some havoc.
I opened the nitrous up for the first time, and from what I can tell, it sprayed fuel only on one side of the engine.
The valves on one side were white, and the other side were black (same with plugs of course).
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 06, 2013, 11:17:52 AM
So one fogger injector was plugged?  Single solenoids right?  I've never even heard of that happening before.  That sucks.

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 06, 2013, 11:23:15 AM
Stupid nitrous. I think they were wired incorrectly. Same as how the battery would always go dead, and it was the electric bottle opener was always "on".
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 06, 2013, 11:38:21 AM
Wired wrong wouldn't matter.  The wiring only went to the solenoids so if one side got fuel it was also there for the other side.  The injector is the mostly likely to plug up,  the line is possible but it's pretty large sized hole.  The smallest opening is the jets in the fogger nozzle. 

So the bottle opener had a fried switch?  That was the switch under the hatch?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 06, 2013, 11:51:01 AM
The guy that wired the switch panel in the console of the car. The bottle opener had constant power (the wires were reversed on the switch, so off was actually on).
I think the same for the nitrous, the switch was backwards in that the nitrous solenoid fired, but fuel did not.
Either way, it didn't work and has to be re-wired and tested before it gets dyno tuned for spray.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 06, 2013, 12:00:51 PM
Didn't the switch in the hatch arm the system?  If the switch in the console was wired wrong ...  Oops that would be me.

The solenoids worked off of 1 wire, not two (in the car).  solenoid power wires must always be soldered together so that they only work together.  I wired the switches.  If one side of engine got fuel then the fuel solenoid was working fine.  Both sides of the engine come from the T at the solenoid.  I didn't check the wiring in the engine comparment, but think I remember the fuel lines both screwing to the T which is into the solenoid.  .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 06, 2013, 12:28:21 PM
Here's a pic.  Your solenoids are on the frame but the same system and the same installer.


(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8028/6iwm.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/6iwm.jpg/)

You'll need to undo the fuel line to the bad side of the engine and the fogger nozzle and blow them clean.  There's a Jet under the fuel line where it's screwed into the fogger nozzle and you probably want smaller jets that the 200hp ones that are in there. 

There is probably a residue build up from sitting so long (varnish). 

The solenoids should actually be mounted above the nozzles so that when you're not using the NOS the fuel drains out of the system ... although they sure don't worry about that on "hidden" systems.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 09, 2013, 08:35:04 AM
I will go through it for sure, and won't play with it again until it's on a dyno so we can monitor closely and tune it properly.
I should have known better than to just "try it" without knowing more about it, but... well... you know... sometimes a guy just wants to spray some nitrous! haha
The cylinder heads should be done this week, and hopefully pistons and rods will arrive this week as well.
If the engine is buttoned up within the next 2 weeks, and I can get everything re-installed within another two weeks I just might get to try the car out before snow flies!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 09, 2013, 11:13:11 AM
Ted, which shop does the intake manifold honing in Edmonton? I should look into that while I have stuff there.
Thanks!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on September 09, 2013, 03:54:44 PM
We used to do it Here in Edmonton , I have since sold the machine to Jim @ JMJ Enterprises. call 780 220 5348
The only Extrude Hone machine in Canada !
Made a very noticeable difference on the Viper !
Pick up some Evans coolant from him while your at it .

D
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 09, 2013, 08:57:05 PM
AWESOME! Thank you sir! I will give him a shout! Does he know the specs on how much to hone on the intake?

We used to do it Here in Edmonton , I have since sold the machine to Jim @ JMJ Enterprises. call 780 220 5348
The only Extrude Hone machine in Canada !
Made a very noticeable difference on the Viper !
Pick up some Evans coolant from him while your at it .

D
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on September 11, 2013, 05:10:43 AM
The intake will be flowed with the hone media to determine the best and worst port, the worst one will then be brought up to flow equall to the best and then beyond , usually 10% or so better . The rest of the intake is then brought up to that spec , the largest gains are from balancing the flow so each cylinder receives an equal amount of air , as cast ports will vary as much as 45% best to worst on the same intake .
It's great on cylinder heads as well , it far surpases what can be achieved by hand porting and even cnc porting will benifit .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 11, 2013, 08:42:04 AM
Wow! That is very interesting!
I will have to inquire on pricing to get this done!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 18, 2013, 02:37:31 PM
The engine is slowly coming along.
The machine shop finish-honed the block, and re measured and I don't need to punch the block out, so that is great news.
The crank is in excellent shape as well.
Rods and pistons will be here next week along with bearings.
My custom grind cam is finished, and we are waiting on a set of Crower 1.7 ratio roller rockers to be built.
Springs, slow bleed lifters and a 14psi pulley are ready to go as well.

I emailed Joel and Teds bearing mod How-To's to the engine builder yesterday to have those mods done while the engine is apart (Thanks guys!).
Other than that, I should have the engine back to me by the end of the month. Then I will need a week or two to get it back in the car, and hopefully trailer to a dyno shop to get Torrie to remote tune!
Getting excited!  :driving: :driving: :driving:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 18, 2013, 11:11:51 PM
I hope they used Torque plates?  as much as 40whp extra and it will break in better as well as faster and seal much better.  I would guess that 360/340 torque plates would work.

Not using ported heads?

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: EllowViper on September 19, 2013, 04:53:54 AM
Kinda hard to finish hone the block without having the pistons in hand...you know, exact skirt fitment measurements and all.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 19, 2013, 08:57:28 AM
I hope they used Torque plates?  as much as 40whp extra and it will break in better as well as faster and seal much better.  I would guess that 360/340 torque plates would work.

Not using ported heads?

Torque plates are only used for boring are they not? My engine did not require boring. Just a hone to ensure the measurements were correct.
And yes, as mentioned they are doing a full port and polish on the heads (it's almost done). They have a CNC guy in house that does the head work.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on September 19, 2013, 09:09:19 AM
So are you getting a CNC port job.

What is the rough cost of a CNC port job.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 19, 2013, 09:11:22 AM
Kinda hard to finish hone the block without having the pistons in hand...you know, exact skirt fitment measurements and all.

It's just standard sized pistons. We had a piston fail, they measured to ensure the block is within its specs. The hone was to ensure there are no issues, and to be ready for re-assembly.
Standard sized pistons have an exact measurement guaranteed by the manufacturer due to the CNC process of their build? If anything oddball happens, they will catch it, they build nothing but race motors so I'm sure it's not their first time building an engine ( I sure hope hahaha).
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 19, 2013, 09:20:12 AM
I don't know 100% sure if they are CNC porting my heads or hand porting them. The guy doing them is a CNC certified/trained tech, however I don't know if he is doing these by hand or by machine.
ROE racing does the CNC job, and they are about 2700 (includes valves etc I think too?).
This job is going to cost 1500-2000 for mine. He said there is room for a LOT of improvement on these heads.

So are you getting a CNC port job.

What is the rough cost of a CNC port job.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 19, 2013, 03:37:29 PM
Torque plate should be used for everything.  A cylinder hone (usually a CK10 machine) can straighten the slight wear of the bore (it wears only where the rings and pistons skirts move and not evenly).  Your engine has half the miles of mind so it'll be fine I'ms ure.  The Torque plate pulls the block into the shape it is when the heads are bolted on since the bolts pull the cylinders and block out of round.  When the heads are removed the block goes round which is not the true shape of the cylinders.  That is why forged pistons (extremely rigid) actually lose hp.  Cast/hypereutetic pistons are malleable and change into the shape of the cylinders when running.  SRT engineers found a difference of 4 - 40 bhp loss depending on the brand of forged piston. 

Yes, as I said there is a huge improvement when the heads are ported.  Gen 2s are bad and the 60bhp of a Gen 3 is from the heads and 1.7 rockers.  The Gen 3 heads are merely a semi ported Gen 2 head in efficiency.  Once ported the Gen 3 have Beehive springs, 1.7 rockers, .007" larger valves with different shaped "heads" and just smoother/nicer porting.  As long as you don't grind the floor of the ports nearly anybody ccould port a set of Gen 2 heads to surpass the Gen 3 flows - in my opinion.  The finishing of the porting on my heads seems to have mad a large difference in my hp ...  I'm gonna guess 30whp from them already being a mild porting job.  When I ported my heads the first time I wasn't sure of the waterjackets so I was careful and did a mild job to make certaint there would be no issues.  After seeing GG head with the guides and support completely removed from the ports I knew I could grind away so I did a street job and left my guides along but boat shaped them since I don't have a race car and personally like the proper guide length. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 20, 2013, 10:14:01 AM
Thanks Ted.
There really wasn't any wear on the cylinders according to the machinist. Just a re-hone to get ready for assembly.
I hope everything turns out well either way. Thanks for any suggestions you have while it's apart guys!  :bow:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 20, 2013, 10:30:15 AM
It'll be fine Sheldon.  Might be a few horsepower that take a few thousand miles to appear but it's not a big thing.  Near as I remember Joel was going to rent/borrow some honing plates because there was none around the Pacific Northwest but it became too expensive and would have taken a really looong time so he passed on it.

I honed mine in the garage and my wear was minimal.  Rebuilding a slightly worn engine gets the best results because your engine has worn in, heat cycled, etc.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 20, 2013, 10:42:21 AM
Nothing a bit more boost won't cure hey? LOL! Man I hope the weather holds out for at least 1 drive in the car before snow!
In the same breath, we do have the sleds ready to go :driving:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 20, 2013, 11:21:30 AM
When I lived in Edmonton there was a "Indian Summer" every fall.  If it snows just wait for that week or two period.  I'm sure that it would be nice to get the engine broken in and some tuning on it.  If I was you (being conservative and old school) I'd run the big Paxton pulley to break in the engine and run it really nicely, then got to the big pulley and get the beast tuned. 

You already know to buy some Non-synthetic oil to break in the engine?  I ran 4000mi on mine and now am doing a full synthetic oil change with the SPECIALY designed Mopar oil filter.  I guess I'll need to order a case of the Viper filters from one of my friends down south next time I'm down there as they could be a week long wait from a Dodge Dealership here.

There $7 and here probably $20.   :lol:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 20, 2013, 11:24:51 AM
Shedlon, did you buy and instal a PartsRack trapdoor oilpan kit?  After seeing my rodbearings I added the trap door kit and got a lot of feedback that the trapdoor kit is a necessitity for drag racing as well as pretty much everything else.  If you havn't done it yet ... Call Jon and order one.  It only takes about 20 min to instal and about an hour and a half if you have to take the pan off your engine.  The oilpan gasket is reuseable so don't worry about that.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 20, 2013, 11:26:43 AM
Boost doesn't happen much until after 4k, so if I'm not redlining the car any the small pulley should be ok.
Yes, roger that on the break in oil.
There are so many changes, that the car won't run before the tune is changed. Will need a lot more fuel with the new valvetrain and way more airflow.
I have only run the viper filters on the truck and both cars. I got a case of them 3 years ago, down to one last filter now... better get more ordered.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 20, 2013, 11:27:38 AM
Shedlon, did you buy and instal a PartsRack trapdoor oilpan kit?  After seeing my rodbearings I added the trap door kit and got a lot of feedback that the trapdoor kit is a necessitity for drag racing as well as pretty much everything else.  If you havn't done it yet ... Call Jon and order one.  It only takes about 20 min to instal and about an hour and a half if you have to take the pan off your engine.  The oilpan gasket is reuseable so don't worry about that.

I did forget about that! I better get one ordered. Thanks Ted.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 20, 2013, 11:36:17 AM
An ordinary oil filter is OK for breakin.  Your car has the ACR pressure relief bypass valve (whichn we couldn't find) so you should have good oiling with the trapdoor kit. 

John Vittone is going to build an ACR bypass valve (just remove spring?) and we'll post a How To for everyone.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 25, 2013, 10:19:49 PM
Well guys, just an update.
Crower isn't done building the rocker arms yet, but the rest of the valvetrain is built and Tony (JTS Venom Performance) is ready to ship once rockers are done.
The engine is ready for the cam and the rest of the valvetrain.
My buddy picked me up tonight for a rip in his 92 Z-28 with a 406 with a procharger at 12 psi (710 RWHP) and WHOOOOOOOO BOY, I'm ready for my car to be on the road again now!
I'm really hoping to get the engine back in my garage on a cherry picker within 2-3 weeks, another 1-2 weeks until it's running and possibly some tuning, or at least hear that beast lope in the garage!!!!!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 25, 2013, 10:46:42 PM
Actually I guess you could use the stock stuff to start your car and break it in, then install the aftermarket rockers and pushrods later.

Wishing for it to come together for you quickly Sheldon.

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 26, 2013, 03:15:41 PM
Actually I guess you could use the stock stuff to start your car and break it in, then install the aftermarket rockers and pushrods later.

Wishing for it to come together for you quickly Sheldon.

Thanks Ted! The stock pushrods won't work with this cam, and the cam was designed for 1.7 ratio rockers. I will have to wait unfourtunately, but at this point there really isn't any rush I suppose.
I have the itch to go fast now and it was 0 degrees this morning, and got up to 8 today haha. Winter is coming and I guess that means the turbo sled will give my speed fix for the next 7 months.  :driving:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 26, 2013, 03:32:56 PM
I would guess that although everything would make more power and be faster ... stock should still get 'er broke in and if alignment is good (stock deck height and head depth) it would be OK until about 5000rpm ... then perhaps have problems (depending on valve springs.  But ... if you can wait ...   :hayes:

I had a Challenger R/T that came with a new engine.  No one could figure out what was wrong with it.  Under WOT the engine would shut off at 4200rpm and not start for about 20 minutes.  I installed .020" washers under the stock rocker shafts and the car fired right up and never quit at WOT again.  Shaved heads and Decked block ...  Once the oil pressure pumped up the hyd lifters the valves couldn't close and the engine would shut off.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 26, 2013, 07:14:49 PM
I would guess that although everything would make more power and be faster ... stock should still get 'er broke in and if alignment is good (stock deck height and head depth) it would be OK until about 5000rpm ... then perhaps have problems (depending on valve springs.  But ... if you can wait ...   :hayes:

I had a Challenger R/T that came with a new engine.  No one could figure out what was wrong with it.  Under WOT the engine would shut off at 4200rpm and not start for about 20 minutes.  I installed .020" washers under the stock rocker shafts and the car fired right up and never quit at WOT again.  Shaved heads and Decked block ...  Once the oil pressure pumped up the hyd lifters the valves couldn't close and the engine would shut off.

The new cam is over 1/2" more lift, so it would certainly bend factory pushrods. Would not be worth the $10,000 gamble lol.
I want to drive it so bad, but will not take a chance with the amount of money into this thing so far.
It's pretty cool how such a small change (that 0.020" washer) can make sure a big difference!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 26, 2013, 10:35:49 PM
The new cam is over 1/2" more lift, so it would certainly bend factory pushrods. Would not be worth the $10,000 gamble lol.
I want to drive it so bad, but will not take a chance with the amount of money into this thing so far.
It's pretty cool how such a small change (that 0.020" washer) can make sure a big difference!

Sorry ... ?  more than 1.0" lift?  Depending on head porting that would shrink your valve guides to not enough??
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 27, 2013, 09:22:25 AM
I typo'd, sorry.
The new cam is .601 lift. Even a stage one Crower Viper cam is only .504" lift.
That and we went to 1.7 R.R. Lot more lift than stock but not half an inch lol.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 27, 2013, 09:51:31 AM
Yah, I figured.  What's the duration?  The stock heads have about .54" lift at the valve before the retainers hit the valve seals requiring the guides to be remachine for more life.  104 - 106 degree cam centerline I'd guess.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 28, 2013, 09:06:57 AM
Yah, I figured.  What's the duration?  The stock heads have about .54" lift at the valve before the retainers hit the valve seals requiring the guides to be remachine for more life.  104 - 106 degree cam centerline I'd guess.

its a 114 seperation and 240/250 duration at .050.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on September 28, 2013, 09:22:35 AM
 :D  That's a lot of camshaft.  Probably not going to help your mileage much.  You stayed with the hydraulic lifters or did you convert them to solid lifters?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: EllowViper on September 28, 2013, 03:52:35 PM
I just pulled my cam card for mine just to compare…At .050 I'm at 236/242 @ 111.0 centerline with 114.0 lobe separation.  But I'm running solid roller so that gives me a little bit more across the lobe. Since I'm boosted, I opted for a gross lift on intake of .578 and .593 on the hot side.  With stock valves, Greg Good stated nothing over .600 gross lift so I had to compromise a bit on the grind. But having solid rollers, a bit less lift is a little easier on the ramp acceleration vs. hydraulic that can absorb a bit of the shock.  I do have the replacement Comp Cams valve springs however.  With a .002 cold lash, I get round .012 hot lash which is just perfect.  Vacuum is real low at cold start, but once warm and the lifter clearances open up, idles right along @ ~800 RPM
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 29, 2013, 09:18:03 PM
:D  That's a lot of camshaft.  Probably not going to help your mileage much.  You stayed with the hydraulic lifters or did you convert them to solid lifters?

oh yessir its a real nasty cam. Makes the roe 710 in my srt10 look like a creampuff lol.
we did slow bleed hydraulic rollers.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 29, 2013, 09:20:39 PM
I just pulled my cam card for mine just to compare…At .050 I'm at 236/242 @ 111.0 centerline with 114.0 lobe separation.  But I'm running solid roller so that gives me a little bit more across the lobe. Since I'm boosted, I opted for a gross lift on intake of .578 and .593 on the hot side.  With stock valves, Greg Good stated nothing over .600 gross lift so I had to compromise a bit on the grind. But having solid rollers, a bit less lift is a little easier on the ramp acceleration vs. hydraulic that can absorb a bit of the shock.  I do have the replacement Comp Cams valve springs however.  With a .002 cold lash, I get round .012 hot lash which is just perfect.  Vacuum is real low at cold start, but once warm and the lifter clearances open up, idles right along @ ~800 RPM

Awesome! Sounds like you have a pretty cool build as well! Yours is TT or a roe?
Tonys cams are making crazy power, their N.A builds are doing close to boosted rwhp.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: EllowViper on September 30, 2013, 05:07:13 AM
A one-off ROE system.  15 PSI boost. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 30, 2013, 08:57:10 AM
A one-off ROE system.  15 PSI boost.

Awesome! What kind of power did it put down? What other mods have you done?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: EllowViper on September 30, 2013, 12:26:38 PM
At 10 PSI, 686/785 a year ago.  Need to get back on the dyno and see where this new set-up is at. Hard to street tune right now given the craziness trying to drive and tune.  Maybe in a month or so back to the dyno...given all the budget uncertainty....
 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 30, 2013, 01:12:44 PM
At 10 PSI, 686/785 a year ago.  Need to get back on the dyno and see where this new set-up is at. Hard to street tune right now given the craziness trying to drive and tune.  Maybe in a month or so back to the dyno...given all the budget uncertainty....

Right on! It should pull a good 780-800+ with the additional 5 psi I'm sure!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 30, 2013, 08:43:43 PM
I also got a Mopar High Capacity Oilpan coming for the car. It adds 2 litres more oil capacity, and has the trap door kit already installed in it.
That along with the engine oiling mods, I should be set for a few thousand miles!  :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 01, 2013, 11:11:49 AM
I thought your 2000 pan already had the extra 2Ls capacity at 10L?  99 and earlier are a couple quarts less.

You bought the swinging pickup oilpan?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 01, 2013, 02:11:00 PM
Ted, according to Roe's site, their high capacity pan adds 2 quarts of capacity to the gen 2 engine.
Here is a link to the product for you to look at:
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/Mopar-Performance-Deep-Sump-Oil-Pan-for-96-02-Vipers-581p1428.htm
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 02, 2013, 09:54:34 AM
For those interested, Ted was correct in that the 2000-2002 Vipers were higher capacity, and this pan I ordered is the same as what I have already aside from the trap door kit they pre-install.
I cancelled my order this morning with Sean, and am looking into an Accusump system.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 02, 2013, 03:16:51 PM
Sheldon, personally, I think the trapdoor kit and your ACR oil press bypass valve should be good enough for more than 1000whp.  Drysump is better of course, but you'd need to mount the tank in the trunk and that would make the cockpit uncomfortable I would think.  I believe the Gen 4s comes with a swinging pickup?

But, if you're going with an acusump tell us what is it's advantage?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 02, 2013, 03:38:00 PM
Sheldon, personally, I think the trapdoor kit and your ACR oil press bypass valve should be good enough for more than 1000whp.  Drysump is better of course, but you'd need to mount the tank in the trunk and that would make the cockpit uncomfortable I would think.  I believe the Gen 4s comes with a swinging pickup?

But, if you're going with an acusump tell us what is it's advantage?

Ted, you are misunderstanding. An accusump is not a "dry sump". It's an accumulator that enhances the existing oiling system.
Quick copy/paste from their site explains it pretty good:

How does an Accusump Oil Accumulator Work?
 Accusumps Oil Accumulators are designed collect pressurized oil from your engine and store it so it may be discharged later. At the time the engine is shut off and the Accusump valve closes any oil pressure in the Accusump is held there. On engine start-up when the valve on the oil side is opened the pressurized oil is released into the engine and therefore pre-lubricates the engine prior to start-up.

 After the engine is started and the oil pump has taken over, oil is pumped back into the Accusump. This moves the piston back and pressurizes the Accusump until it equalizes with engine's oil pressure. While driving, if the engine's oil pressure is interrupted for any reason, the Accusump releases its oil reserve again, keeping the engine lubricated until the engine's oil pressure comes back to normal. This release of oil could last from 15 to 60 seconds, depending on the size and speed of the engine. In racing or hard driving conditions, the Accusump will automatically fill and discharge when needed as you corner, accelerate and brake.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 02, 2013, 03:39:24 PM
The cam, rockers and springs arrived today. The lifters are still in transit from North Carolina, we should see them likely by Monday.
Getting closer now!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 02, 2013, 04:18:20 PM
Ted, you are misunderstanding. An accusump is not a "dry sump". It's an accumulator that enhances the existing oiling system.
Quick copy/paste from their site explains it pretty good:

How does an Accusump Oil Accumulator Work?
 Accusumps Oil Accumulators are designed collect pressurized oil from your engine and store it so it may be discharged later. At the time the engine is shut off and the Accusump valve closes any oil pressure in the Accusump is held there. On engine start-up when the valve on the oil side is opened the pressurized oil is released into the engine and therefore pre-lubricates the engine prior to start-up.

 After the engine is started and the oil pump has taken over, oil is pumped back into the Accusump. This moves the piston back and pressurizes the Accusump until it equalizes with engine's oil pressure. While driving, if the engine's oil pressure is interrupted for any reason, the Accusump releases its oil reserve again, keeping the engine lubricated until the engine's oil pressure comes back to normal. This release of oil could last from 15 to 60 seconds, depending on the size and speed of the engine. In racing or hard driving conditions, the Accusump will automatically fill and discharge when needed as you corner, accelerate and brake.

I remember the units being built by Dan at VS and Dan at DC perf.  Who built yours?  They were designed and highly recomended for road racing. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 02, 2013, 04:20:26 PM
A full flow oil filter is also a good idea , the stock filter has a bypass inside of it and will only filter 20-30% of the oil the rest goes through the bypass constantly , a full flow filter eliminates the bypass in the filter and filters All of the oil ! I run one on every thing I drive , added bonus is its easy to inspect the filter when changing for any signs of wear , why put all of this money and time into the engine only to run dirty oil through it ?
Accusump is a great idea too !
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 02, 2013, 05:57:10 PM
You're referring to the custom made Viper oil filter that I've only been able to find at Mopar?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 02, 2013, 07:29:23 PM
No , that one has a bypass too , but has a  higher spring pressure so may filter more oil but certainly not all.
 The ones I use are made by Canton and the spin on ones have a replaceable element or you can get an inline like I have on the Alcohol Hemi .
Can post a pic in am , we use at shop when have a contaminated system we need to clean up .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 02, 2013, 07:35:27 PM
I remember the units being built by Dan at VS and Dan at DC perf.  Who built yours?  They were designed and highly recomended for road racing.

They possibly made an accumulator of some kind.
I'm referring to an actual Accusump accumulator. Check out their site for more info:
http://accusump.com/

The cool thing about them, is on engine shutdown, the valve closes and holds full oil pressure with the engine off. It essentially pre-oils the engine, so you never have a dry startup. Pretty cool idea and cheap too!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 02, 2013, 07:36:55 PM
No , that one has a bypass too , but has a  higher spring pressure so may filter more oil but certainly not all.
 The ones I use are made by Canton and the spin on ones have a replaceable element or you can get an inline like I have on the Alcohol Hemi .
Can post a pic in am , we use at shop when have a contaminated system we need to clean up .

Cool! Canton is who makes the Accusump product. I will have to look into some filters as well (unfourtunately I ordered another case of the VIPER filters already haha)
Thanks for the heads up on the filtering!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 02, 2013, 08:04:40 PM
I suspect that Darryl is referring to a screen type filter?  I ran one on a race car.  Never paid much mind to oil filters as nearly everyone runs a standard filter ... 

I remember the accessory filters such as the one on my Western Star that was filled with HAY.  Saw a few other systems that used a roll of toilet paper.  Not sure that they are much use to us since we carry close to the amount of oil in a dry sump system and adding an accusump would mean 13L of oil for the engine.  With 5,000mi oil changes that is more than enough.  My Hemi uses 7L and oil change is 6.200mile intervals.  That interval needs to be adjsuted according to cars useage. 

I admit to liking the preoiling feature of the accusump.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 02, 2013, 08:24:04 PM
The element in the Canton is a pleated paper element , not hemp , kelp or horsehair .
They should have info on the website about the filters , it may be worth shelving the factory filters ( or make Ted a good deal ) and getting one of these , far cheaper than bearings and if any dirt or debris got missed on the engine build it will not get past a full flow filter , period !
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 02, 2013, 08:36:22 PM
One great thing about the screen filter was that it showed you any debris that it caught.  Think I should do a little research and try to find those filters again ... 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 08, 2013, 08:19:37 PM
Moroso also make them.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13600

I was told to add this to my car because of my oiling problems I've had. Might be something i'll do over the winter
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 08, 2013, 09:00:32 PM
You'd need to add the electric solenoid shut off so that it will shut off the oil flow when you shut down the engine ... of it'l drain into the pan.  It looks like the manual shut off is how you prelube the oil.  While engine is running shut off the valve so that it'll maintain pressure.  Before starting engine open manual vlave and it'll dump the oil into the oiling system. 

I like the idea of carrying as much oil as a dry sump (13qts) but carrying all that weight maybe just upgrade to a drysump and mount the tank in the trunk?  At least you'll get as much as 100hp with a dry sump ...
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 09, 2013, 07:56:03 AM
You'd need to add the electric solenoid shut off so that it will shut off the oil flow when you shut down the engine ... of it'l drain into the pan.  It looks like the manual shut off is how you prelube the oil.  While engine is running shut off the valve so that it'll maintain pressure.  Before starting engine open manual vlave and it'll dump the oil into the oiling system. 

I like the idea of carrying as much oil as a dry sump (13qts) but carrying all that weight maybe just upgrade to a drysump and mount the tank in the trunk?  At least you'll get as much as 100hp with a dry sump ...

They recommend the electric valve kit on the website for daily driver applications. It's keyed, so opens and closes as needed with ignition.
100hp going to a dry sump ted? That's hard to believe isn't it? Everyone would go that route over hp mods if that was the case in a cost perspective?  :idk:

We are off to deliver the cam, lifters, springs and rockers to the machine shop today, have a nice lunch at The Keg, a couple business meetings then home. Depending on how long to get pushrods made up, I might be sparking her up this month yet!

Both of my vette buddies in town broke down last week. They are brothers that are big into racing, one guy blew his T-56, the other guy snapped the output shaft on the diff. Done for summer now, but at least I know how they feel.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 09, 2013, 11:33:49 AM
Problem with a dry sump is that $10,000 cost to buy and very labor intensive to instal.  It is required for road racing and although I don't have one ... all large hp, mega buck engines use one.

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Hadvenom08 on October 09, 2013, 02:23:27 PM
Problem with a dry sump is that $10,000 cost to buy and very labor intensive to instal.  It is required for road racing and although I don't have one ... all large hp, mega buck engines use one.


My buddy designed and installed one in his 06 and works well.I actually have it on my rack in my garage.He had many inquires about build info,cost specifics, etc.......But most just want to steal his idea's and such. Put the tank (fabbed it himself) positioned it in a perfect spot and ran the lines,etc.

Don't know what it costs,(well maybe I do) but I will never say as he may develop and market it some day.



Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 09, 2013, 03:34:21 PM
HMMM, makes me wonder what he would want to put his sticker outside and instal that into my TT car for the Salt flats runs next year?  Would publicity and honorablke mentions be enough pay?

But would that be practical for the street Timbo?  Unless you're referring to an accumulator and not a drysump?   :-\

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Hadvenom08 on October 09, 2013, 03:55:55 PM
HMMM, makes me wonder what he would want to put his sticker outside and instal that into my TT car for the Salt flats runs next year?  Would publicity and honorablke mentions be enough pay?

But would that be practical for the street Timbo?  Unless you're referring to an accumulator and not a drysump?   :-\


No it's a dry sump.For his 06 not a GTS.

That would have to be,prototyped, developed,tested.....

I just stated that my buddy made(developed) a DS for his viper.

Ted don't know how he could develop a DS for a GTS, if he doesn't have one to rip apart and figure out the system.Plus he just bought a house and is working on that like a wild man.

No time at the moment.



Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 09, 2013, 05:44:48 PM
 :'(  06 oiling system is the same although the bodies are radically different.  The vapor separator is his secret?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 10, 2013, 06:32:51 AM
Interesting...
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 10, 2013, 06:39:21 AM
Our trip to the engine shop went good. Spent about an hour going through the parts and cylinder head build.
The gen2 heads have a significant "drop" on the intake valve side, so a huge benefit going to the 2.02 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves. I was hoping the seats would have enough meat to machine out, but they don't so it requires new seats as well (Double the cost, but needs done).
There was one small mark in the cylinder that had the broken piston that I was not 100% happy with, so we are boring the block now and doing oversized pistons.
They originally told me that we were staying standard bore size, and that they were ready for installation, but that was the counter guy, not the machinist I spoke to.

Darrel, I had a good chat with Jim at JMJ for about a half hour about the extrude honing he does. He said he changed the process and media from how it used to be done for better flow results. Cost is 500-700 roughly to do my intake manifold.
Where does it stop?! This is getting to be one expensive build!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 10, 2013, 07:24:09 AM
It doesn't stop. You will get it in the car and it's just the beginning lol.
I started with a built roe and now well the list has been so long that I've lost track.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 10, 2013, 09:06:58 AM
$500 isn't a good deal for only 20whp. :idk:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 10, 2013, 09:34:49 AM
I know Jim has steamlined  things a bit but process is the same , he has reduced the process time and lowered cost in doing so , we would have charged that intake out at 1000.00 when we had the machine .
Ted I think that screen oil filter was made by oberg ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 10, 2013, 09:46:19 AM
It doesn't stop. You will get it in the car and it's just the beginning lol.
I started with a built roe and now well the list has been so long that I've lost track.

Haha yeah I hear you. I had a 710 hp SRT10 that "just wasn't enough" that sparked me buying the ACR from Ted. It will be double the HP than when I bought it within a month.
And my buddies in the U.S are telling me my Paxton will be for sale by next summer and I'll have twins on order.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 10, 2013, 09:56:40 AM
I know Jim has steamlined  things a bit but process is the same , he has reduced the process time and lowered cost in doing so , we would have charged that intake out at 1000.00 when we had the machine .
Ted I think that screen oil filter was made by oberg ?

Yes, Oberg.  Thinking back now I wonder why I never ran more than the 1?  Haven't seen them on any cars for years.  They were quite popular when I ran one ... 

http://obergfilters.com/faq.html#faq2

Mike Meadows and a few others are upgrading from 900-1000whp Paxton's to TTs.  What I don't like about the TT is that even in 4th gear, it gets traction but soon after shifting it hits boost and the power surges on like a Nitrous button and traction is lost again. 

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 10, 2013, 11:33:31 AM
Paxton cars are great because the power is very smooth and linear. Faster quarter mile times than a twin screw in most cases because of better traction and a lot easier on the engine.
I think once this car is "done" I am further ahead to buy another one (for the wife) and built it with TT's or something different than this. Cheaper to do that than change the entire setup of this one.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 10, 2013, 11:40:43 AM
With the right tire the TT can work on the street. (MT ET street radials for example)
That's what Sal runs on his 6sec beast. One could probably get a summer out of a set with some near by road trips.

At 10 psi I have plenty of traction up top with my Nitto's.
But that's only 720 whp

In all honesty , that's enough to make the hairs on my arms stand up on the street at the top end.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 10, 2013, 11:57:08 AM
With the right tire the TT can work on the street. (MT ET street radials for example)
That's what Sal runs on his 6sec beast. One could probably get a summer out of a set with some near by road trips.

At 10 psi I have plenty of traction up top with my Nitto's.
But that's only 720 whp

In all honesty , that's enough to make the hairs on my arms stand up on the street at the top end.

Nice! I run Mickey Thompsons all the time on mine. Put 2000km on them two summers ago, tons of burnouts and tuning, testing launching etc. They still have tons of tire left on them.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 10, 2013, 01:50:04 PM
Paxton sc's are slower than TS.  On PS1s my Roe car went 10.5@140mph.  There are many 800-900whp Paxtons and a few TTs that were only 10.6@139mph with drag radials. 

Tony Armour's Roe went 9.6 at 750whp and 9.2 with a glide and a small Nitrous shot.  The advantage of a TS is that the POWER is full on with little curve.  At 2000rpm the torque is full on and the power delivery is full power through the entire rpm range (full torque then full hp). 

Watching this video from MM.  With the new 28" tall 14" wide Hoosier R6s I found traction in third gear.   This is with the 13psi pump gas tune ...  Car is insane, can't imagine this car on the E85 or 26psi tunes ...  ART said, "You know that there's 200hp if you remove the airfilters?"  ...   ahhh, no, I didn't know that ... 

This car is mind boggling.  Drove it 3000 miles from Houston to Canada and got 17mpg (us) and it was a comfortable drive.  Kirk recharged the airconditioning for me and the only problem with the car was the stereo faceplate wouldn't allow me to adjust the bass.  In the video I've installed a bolt-in full cage, re and re'd the stereo (Bluetooth) and added better brakes.  I would sell the car for the price that Hyph's TT was sold for ... $100,000 or do the salt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnmwE8T0D4U
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 10, 2013, 11:35:13 PM
Paxton sc's are slower than TS.  On PS1s my Roe car went 10.5@140mph.  There are many 800-900whp Paxtons and a few TTs that were only 10.6@139mph with drag radials. 

Tony Armour's Roe went 9.6 at 750whp and 9.2 with a glide and a small Nitrous shot.  The advantage of a TS is that the POWER is full on with little curve.  At 2000rpm the torque is full on and the power delivery is full power through the entire rpm range (full torque then full hp). 

Watching this video from MM.  With the new 28" tall 14" wide Hoosier R6s I found traction in third gear.   This is with the 13psi pump gas tune ...  Car is insane, can't imagine this car on the E85 or 26psi tunes ...  ART said, "You know that there's 200hp if you remove the airfilters?"  ...   ahhh, no, I didn't know that ... 

This car is mind boggling.  Drove it 3000 miles from Houston to Canada and got 17mpg (us) and it was a comfortable drive.  Kirk recharged the airconditioning for me and the only problem with the car was the stereo faceplate wouldn't allow me to adjust the bass.  In the video I've installed a bolt-in full cage, re and re'd the stereo (Bluetooth) and added better brakes.  I would sell the car for the price that Hyph's TT was sold for ... $100,000 or do the salt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnmwE8T0D4U

That's kind of a generic statement Ted.... That's like you saying that vipers are the fastest car out there. I love my viper, but my buddies 92 Z28 runs 9's and would give your TT a really nice run for it's money and it's a $17,000 car. Just how it is sometimes. A $200,000 build should run 6 second quarters in my opinion, but they don't.
Every build is different. All cars run different times and we all have different tastes.
I would love to race my Paxton car against your ROE car once I'm running again. I'm sure it would be a pretty quick Paxton car compared to most after the build we are doing. Always someone one there that is faster for sure.
No disrespect to anyone, I am definitely a dodge fan, and especially vipers, but we take a lot of money in mod's to get similar times to other cars with less money in mods.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 11, 2013, 01:46:13 AM
My TT went 9.2ET missing 4th gear ... wrinkle slicks are in the garage.  It is an 8 sec car.  I plan to set a world record with it, then turn on the 26psi race gas tune and beat the Mojave Mile record.  However I would sell it for $100,000.

My Sapphire GTS could probably use the rest of the Nitrous system hooked up for about 200hp.  As far as camaros go ...  I have a modified 440 Duster with a 250hp Nitrousn system on it.  Unfortunately, my Duster is only fast straight, doesn't stop worth shit and doesn't have a/c.  It's for sale for only $20,000.  I invested $32000 and a few thousand hours labor.  Remeber Sheldon, I race my cars often.  It's where my trophies come from  :)

What other cars do you have sheldon?  I think I want to run the Open Road Rallies of Texas and the Chuahua Mexico.  I figured that I'd just cage one of my Stealth TTs because its AWD and AWS.  Steve Waldman was telling me that his WRX is faster down there than the Viper so I figure with 16Gs and the other new "goodies" my Stealth could run n5-600whp and it gets 30mpg.  You ninterested?  I haven't got a navigator or partner in the car - or a buddy that wants to travel together with their own car ...
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 11, 2013, 02:46:16 AM
Here's a good race for my Sapphire GTS.  I lost to one at RacetheBase by a couple miles an hour.  But my car is a couple miles an hour faster than the Lambos after the little extra head porting I did.  Probably about 190mph in the mile at 2300' maybe a little more?  My car was 284kph there last year.   Probably run 308kph with the extra head porting I did.  That was fun, too bad there won't be another, unless we do one???  Looking at the results  http://www.racethebase.ca/?go=2012-event-results I see that would have made my slow Viper the fastest in the mile.  Only the 1 GTR went over 300kph in the mile (including the Saleen S7 TT).  Hmmm

Here's the money Sheldon ...  $135,000 for 750hp  similar to the pair that finished right behind me at RtB.  See how much fun we'll have beating the money cars Sheldon?  There was 2 Mustangs, a bunch of modified Beemers but no Camaros this time.  Last time a crate 700hp Hemi GTS only managed 265kph in 1.8 miles.  These mile events are where the Viper shines Sheldon.  Although Bob Paxton's 750whp Paxton only went 284kph in a standing mile his problem was the high gear ...  He had stock gears and when he shifted into 6th he lost all his acceleration.  You should be able to keep pulling because you've upgraded your od gears!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lamborghini-Gallardo-TT-Gallardo-750-whp-twin-turbo-billet-62-mm-motec-m-800-custom-stereo-titan-/190920641678?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2c73c1cc8e&item=190920641678&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

When we get out there it's gonna be a blast!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 11, 2013, 08:50:08 PM
Sheldon, I read a guy that said he has a few sets of GTSR heads for sale.  I sent him a few questions and asked for info and price. 

Taillights has a set of Striker R, Caldwell ported GTSR heads on his engine.  Absolutely best that can be bought.  You interested in a set Sheldon and Joel?  ?

Sheldon when I measured the 1.88" intake valves in my 2001 heads they measured 1.93".  When I measured the Gen 3 heads 2.00" intake valves they were right at 1.99" 

Although the valves were sitting on my bench I decided NOT to install he slightly larger (.07") valves into my heads because the $500 to grind just the seats slightly larger...  Probably only about 2hp advantage.  I think that I will upgrade to my ported Gen 3 heads since I didn't find anyone interested in buying them  8)  so I'll use them.  That should mean that my ported sprung, 4000mi heads should be for sale next summer.  I expect that there will be about 4hp gain over my Gen 2 heads, maybe 8 if the inside of the valve seats are slightly larger?  I'll have to go measure that ... 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 11, 2013, 09:26:52 PM
I'm always kinda looking for some heads. Just hoping to land on the right heads and deal.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 11, 2013, 10:41:44 PM
I asked, "Are these ported by Caldwell?  Are they Striker R heads"  "How Much?"             

 He answered, "Yes"              :idk:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 11, 2013, 10:43:17 PM
I'm scared to know how much lol
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 11, 2013, 10:55:11 PM
Well, Striker Rs are about $13K complete?  I think Taillights said his had $20,000 of Caldwell porting ... 

UKBAZ has Caldwell ported heads on his 2001 Roe R/T 10. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 12, 2013, 08:43:33 AM
I had my heads upgraded with new seats and Manley 2.02/1.60 valves. I should be set but thanks for the offer.
Tony has/had the last set of brand new striker r heads and was selling for around 8500.

Sheldon, I read a guy that said he has a few sets of GTSR heads for sale.  I sent him a few questions and asked for info and price. 

Taillights has a set of Striker R, Caldwell ported GTSR heads on his engine.  Absolutely best that can be bought.  You interested in a set Sheldon and Joel?  ?

Sheldon when I measured the 1.88" intake valves in my 2001 heads they measured 1.93".  When I measured the Gen 3 heads 2.00" intake valves they were right at 1.99" 

Although the valves were sitting on my bench I decided NOT to install he slightly larger (.07") valves into my heads because the $500 to grind just the seats slightly larger...  Probably only about 2hp advantage.  I think that I will upgrade to my ported Gen 3 heads since I didn't find anyone interested in buying them  8)  so I'll use them.  That should mean that my ported sprung, 4000mi heads should be for sale next summer.  I expect that there will be about 4hp gain over my Gen 2 heads, maybe 8 if the inside of the valve seats are slightly larger?  I'll have to go measure that ...
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 12, 2013, 10:35:25 AM
20k just for porting ?
 A 1000.00 per port ?
That would be 80 + man hours per port at typical shop rates and is a good part of a year for one man , some one can sell people on this ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 12, 2013, 10:50:15 AM
LOL, $100 per hour won't even get a hone from an unknown anymore.  Someone with a name charges megabucks.  Didn't you get told your heads had $20,000 worth of porting as well? 

Perhaps your engine has Striker heads on it as well?  I think the way to tell is the small stamp on the end of the heads, intake side?  John's had the 10TB intake manifold and cf filter box so I couldn't see it clearly. 

John was told there were only 8 manifolds but it seems that there are more. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Taillights on October 14, 2013, 01:38:16 PM
Just to clarify, the striker heads are about 12,000 ( which includes the $3500 jessels) then my heads were hand ported, and all the valves, springs, retainers and keepers were swapped out for severe duty parts. The flow between 360 and 370 CFM.
 My understanding of the GTSR  heads( I've had several sets in my hands) is that there's extra material to prevent them from cracking in an  endurance racing situation. They would take the same CNC program as a stock set of viper heads which max out at about 320 CFM. Stock viper heads whacked out to 320 CFM will not last 24 hours at 800 hp.
 As far as the 10 ITB intake manifolds go. There are at least six variations that I know of, they were constantly being developed, I know of a couple more for sale between 20 and 25k. One more piece of interesting information, if you put one on a mildly built Viper, those manifolds will take away half your torque and 100 horsepower.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Taillights on October 14, 2013, 01:48:34 PM
Hey, as far as what I just posted about the GTSR heads and the intake manifold. I'd like to hear back about what information others have, I know Danyou Cragan has lots of experience with both, also maybe Sean Row. I know there's a lot of misinformation about those heads out there and we all need to figure out what the truth is.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 14, 2013, 01:49:36 PM
Taillights ,12000.00 for the heads is much more reasonable than the 20 k handjob Ted was talking about !
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 14, 2013, 02:51:36 PM
The striker r heads I was offered were 8000 and included shaft mounted rockers at that price and possibly the matching striker cam (can't recall from memory).
Why anyone would put 20k into headwork is beyond me, I'd add a $300 shot of spray personally.
Serious racers of course, that do not drive their cars are a different story I understand.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 14, 2013, 02:57:29 PM
The stock $8000 stryker STREET heads were already to much of a commitment for most. Never mind 20k.
I know the strykers R's were more money and not really recommended for the street.
At 5-6k they would have sold way more of these but I guess they need to be profitable , and most likely why they no longer exist.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 14, 2013, 03:31:07 PM
Ron Miller said:
"Strikers are no longer available as there is a law suit pending (I have no details). I seriously doubt they will make a return."
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 14, 2013, 05:03:27 PM
The way I see it is that heads that are not ported create a lot of restriction for gases flowing into and out of the engine.  Ported heads don't really MAKE hp.  There is no gas or air added by porting the heads, the gas and air merely move through the engine with much less restriction RELEASING hp that was lost to the severe airflow restrictions.

A large part of the cost of head porting is in the multi-angle valve grinding.  When I asked my "pet" machine shop how much to merely grind a few thou off of my valve seat inserts (I'd already ground the valves and seats) to use the .007" larger 2.00" gen 3 valves in my GTS heads ... he said $500. 

Porting my heads took longer than 40 hours.  But even a couple days grinding on a set of heads makes a big difference.  The Gen 3 heads are about +45bhp because of smoother ports, comb chambers and better blended machine markings.  That wouldn't be much work to equal the Gen 3 porting in a Gen 2 head ...

Ever since I ported my first set of heads I refuse to run stock heads on my cars.  With head gaskets being $300-600 a pair nowadays I will wait until I find an excuse to remove the heads before portin them, but be assured, none of my heads will go back on an engine with stock ports.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 14, 2013, 08:45:10 PM
What did you find for ring end gap on the rest of the cylinders , I see the blow by mark on the second land and can see where the ring end appears to have been , that gap looks huge ?
 Is this a nitrous motor ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 14, 2013, 10:59:39 PM
His engine never had a valve cover off until now.  Stock engine with under 30,000mi I believe Sheldon told me.

It did have Nitrous Which was setup on a dyno.  The guy I bought the car from had used it, but I never tried it. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 15, 2013, 08:11:07 AM
What did you find for ring end gap on the rest of the cylinders , I see the blow by mark on the second land and can see where the ring end appears to have been , that gap looks huge ?
 Is this a nitrous motor ?

I didn't check ring gap on any other cylinders as all the factory internals are going in the shed.
The block is getting punched out now, as there is a small mark that we weren't happy with on the "bad hole".
Rods and pistons are due to arrive any day (still waiting.....).

The car has 35,000 miles on it. Had been painted numerous times, was set up with too much HP for a stock motor, was not tuned correctly.
I installed gauges on the car, and it was very lean. We changed injectors, long tube headers, 2 bar MAP, stage 2 intake on the Paxton, cat deletes and custom tuning by torrie at unleashed tuning. Added significan HP and driveability.
I put Mickey Thompson 345's on the car. Decided to try the nitrous for the first time and it blew the engine. I suspect no fuel, only nitrous sprayed. But who knows for 100% sure. I could have just been when the piston was ready to let go if the wife was driving the car.
Either way, it was a great excuse to pull the engine and built it properly, and make some serious HP!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 15, 2013, 10:15:58 AM
I thought the piston pic was new yesterday when I was looking at thread on my phone , but guess I had missed it before .
 if the gap was as large as it looks you can get nitrous and fuel down between the top and second ring and it will then detonate and break the ring land just like you saw , when we ran the 3 stage nitrous (1200 hp shot )I had two fogger nozzles plug on the fuel side of the port nozzles , melted two pistons but never broke the land .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 15, 2013, 12:06:27 PM
I thought the piston pic was new yesterday when I was looking at thread on my phone , but guess I had missed it before .
 if the gap was as large as it looks you can get nitrous and fuel down between the top and second ring and it will then detonate and break the ring land just like you saw , when we ran the 3 stage nitrous (1200 hp shot )I had two fogger nozzles plug on the fuel side of the port nozzles , melted two pistons but never broke the land .

Oh, I see! That piston is months ago when I pulled the heads and pan off. That makes sense though!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 15, 2013, 03:01:40 PM
Easy to check Sheldon.  Turn on the Nitrous system (disconnect the coils first) and the key.  Fuel sprays or it doesn't.  Same with the Nitrous, it sprays or it doesn't.  You can unplug one solenoid so you can test one then the other. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 15, 2013, 06:06:28 PM
Easy to check Sheldon.  Turn on the Nitrous system (disconnect the coils first) and the key.  Fuel sprays or it doesn't.  Same with the Nitrous, it sprays or it doesn't.  You can unplug one solenoid so you can test one then the other.

The wiring is all messed up on the nitrous and C02 system on the car. Remember me emailing you last summer trying to figure it out?
I would stick a test light to those WOT switches on the throttle bodies, and C02 would start spraying, but it would not spray when driving the car (which means the wiring to the WOT switches was backwards....).
The bottle opener wiring was backwards so it was always on.
The nitrous button I honestly don't know if it worked. The purge button would reduce N20 pressure on the bottle, but I could never verify the N20. Tried a test light hooked to power and to ground prodding that WOT switch, could not make nitrous or fuel spray.  :idk:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 15, 2013, 10:39:31 PM
Still easy enough to put a couple feet of wire from the battery terminal at the PDM and touch the wire not hooked to ground at solenoid and see if it sprays from both nozzles.  To do nos open the bottle and fuel turn on the key.  If they both spray equal it may mean that your not getting timing retard of 8 degrees when energizing the NOS system which would mean the timing was the problem, not lack of fuel.

If the Nitrous button turned on horrendous amounts of power the Nitrous was there.  If there wasn't much happening with the button on probably the problem was that the timing didn't change for the Nitrous.  125hp Nitrous at 40degrees total advance made zero hp.  32 degrees total advance made the tires smoke past 100mph on my 440 Duster.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 16, 2013, 08:24:19 AM
Still easy enough to put a couple feet of wire from the battery terminal at the PDM and touch the wire not hooked to ground at solenoid and see if it sprays from both nozzles.  To do nos open the bottle and fuel turn on the key.  If they both spray equal it may mean that your not getting timing retard of 8 degrees when energizing the NOS system which would mean the timing was the problem, not lack of fuel.

If the Nitrous button turned on horrendous amounts of power the Nitrous was there.  If there wasn't much happening with the button on probably the problem was that the timing didn't change for the Nitrous.  125hp Nitrous at 40degrees total advance made zero hp.  32 degrees total advance made the tires smoke past 100mph on my 440 Duster.

Hmmmm.... I will likely just have the bottles there for show anyways, but would like to know whats up. I will have a look one day.
No, it didn't do a darn thing when I had the bottle open. Car started to run funny, limped home and plugs were all fouled on one side, and white on the other side.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 16, 2013, 11:00:42 AM
Hmmmm.... I will likely just have the bottles there for show anyways, but would like to know whats up. I will have a look one day.
No, it didn't do a darn thing when I had the bottle open. Car started to run funny, limped home and plugs were all fouled on one side, and white on the other side.

Sounds like the timing.  when the engine goes lean it has a power surge then it will detonate ... if it didn't do the huge power surge then the timing might not have retarded ...  that's when it'll run funny without making more power.  2 degrees retard per 50hp with Nitrous.  Ask Torrie about the tunes in the pcm and the split second box.  I can message Larry and see where the timing adj was in the tune.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 16, 2013, 01:16:40 PM
Thanks Ted.
I wouldn't bother with Larry, as we have changed most of what they have done. The SS box just turns on the Paxton fuel pumps now to my understanding.
The SCT does everything else.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 16, 2013, 01:59:56 PM
The PCM doesn't have a on/off accessory output with timing adjustment.  The SS box was what is used to control the timing and on/off fuel pumps according to boost.  You need a "ON" circuit that would delay the timing signal the PCM so that it will retard the timing. 

The vec is much more versatile than the SS box, but I expect that the SS box would have the on/off input.  Torrie would know.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 16, 2013, 02:14:53 PM
There will be a separate nitrous tune on the SCT he would supply me with. As mentioned, he is doing all the ignition stuff on the SCT.
I modified the SS box, so their role is minimal now.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: regularsavings on October 16, 2013, 02:17:58 PM
One more piece of interesting information, if you put one on a mildly built Viper, those manifolds will take away half your torque and 100 horsepower.
  :'(
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 16, 2013, 03:00:53 PM
Good idea.  I would have preferred it to just automatically retard the timing from a power signal when turning on the Nitrous Arming switch as compared to hook up the flash tuner and load a different program though.

Probably doesn't matter since you car will be powerful enough that you'll only be turning on the Nitrous system once in a great occaission.   Mojave Mile and Salt Flats allow use of Nitrous as do NHRA tracks, but the SSCC doesn't allow the bottle to be inside the car during their event.  No nitrous.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 16, 2013, 03:09:16 PM
Good idea.  I would have preferred it to just automatically retard the timing from a power signal when turning on the Nitrous Arming switch as compared to hook up the flash tuner and load a different program though.

Probably doesn't matter since you car will be powerful enough that you'll only be turning on the Nitrous system once in a great occaission.   Mojave Mile and Salt Flats allow use of Nitrous as do NHRA tracks, but the SSCC doesn't allow the bottle to be inside the car during their event.  No nitrous.

I agree, the engine should hopefully surpass my driving ability for the first few months next season.
Did I mention I have a trailer that will hold two vipers and a brand new Cummins Dually Ted?
We could trailer both cars down to the U.S and whoooop everyones butts  :driving:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 16, 2013, 03:34:37 PM
No, you didn't mention that.  If we're gonna be ass kickin then I need to add the fuel lines, bottle and f pump to make certain that my Sapphire GTS runs past the 200mph "barrier" at Mojave Mile.  Umm, maybe it would be fun to run the TT through the halfmile at NORC/SSCC again with the 28" Hoosier R6s?  Might be a good test for the new transmission and oiling system, scattershield etc.

If we worked at it we could do TEXAS Big Bend Open Road Rally?  I heard that Larry Macedo and John Canal are gonna try their luck there this year.  Texas is too far to drive alone, but I hear it's an even better event than SSCC.  I'm also thinking of caging and building one of my Stealth  up to 500whp and running it in the week long Chuahua Open Road Rally in Mexico.  At least it's on my Bucket list.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 16, 2013, 03:36:54 PM
Wow! Would take some deep pockets, that sounds like a few good weeks off work, and a lot of travel exspense. Would be a ton of fun though!
I'll email you a couple pics of the new tow rig.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 16, 2013, 05:19:03 PM
That looks like Mega Cab house Sheldon.  I could drive that thing down and pick you up at the airport.  Probably fly to Texas for $300 both ways.  You supply truck and fuel and I supply the 5 or 6 days driving time to get there and back?  Mexico is gonna be a couple years I think We'll just take my Stealth.  Year after next maybe do Texas?  Next spring if you want to do NORC May I'd probably be interested in going down with you.   Aug/Sept I still hope to get to Bonneville and run the Salt Flats.  After seeing the time it takes to get any Viper stuff (I till need 2 Fire extinguisher systems for my TT.  I think I need a 6060 trans as well so I can add the custom gear ratios needed to run about 260mph. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 16, 2013, 08:36:14 PM
Hahahha I hope youre joking on that offer lol.
I supply a 200k tow rig AND pay for diesel to get you to the states hahhahahahaha
seems legit... :eatspopcorn:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 17, 2013, 03:27:13 PM
We can split, no problem.  I thought you wouldn't be able to get the time off so if you supplied the wheels and I supplied the weeks driving time it would allow you to go without having to pay all expenses and pay a driver, sorry.  Guess it didn't sound good the way you read it, LOL.

 I think it would be 15.5 hours for me to trailer to Lloydminster to meet you there.  From Lloyd it's 32 hrs to Big Bend TX.  Your truck pulling two cars probably is cheaper than driving my Truck and trailer.   Northern California uses some special gas that got me 6mpg.  I get 10mpg with my Hemi and enclosed trailer.  BUT, Vegas is closer and wouldn't you want to drive there in the Viper?  I get 26mpg in my GTS and your ACR got 23.7mpg when I drove it here from Phoenix.  The drive down is fun.  Texas is a long ways from everywhere so a trailer is preferred.  Mojave Mile is a drag weekend so tools etc do require a trailer.  My  TT is a trailer car because of it's massive power.   

Mojave Mile is 1700 miles from here and Las Vegas is the same distance.  Must be some issues as my GPS drove me the longer route the last two times I was down there.  32hrs

But ... 15 hrs from Las Vegas to Big Bend Texas.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 19, 2013, 03:56:55 PM
Ted , what's in Big bend tx, Is there a new event ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 19, 2013, 08:36:57 PM
It's another Open Road Rally.  Less cars and people are much more amicable towards letting you up a class or two instead of making you start at the bottom.  SSCC is screaming through the high desert at mind boggling speeds.  Texas is shorter and has more corners making it a much shorter slower rally.  People I spoke to said it's better though.  Apparently all 100 entry spots are filled the day the registration opens.  Only 100 entries allowed.  Points and credits are carried with/to NORC/SSCC.

The Chuahua Rally is the same but takes 5 (?) days and a couple thousand kms.  The Mexican Rally is the one I'm thinking of building a 500hp Stealth TT for.

Both Tx and Mex are on my Bucket list.  I didn't hear if Ralph G. went back to the Newfie Targa Rally or not.  I think he ran 3 years at least.  Don't feel too much desire to do that one ... but ...  it could be fun.

Vegas is closest by far.  Tx closer for you?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 19, 2013, 08:48:12 PM
That sounds like a good event , what time of year is it ?
That would be about a ten hour drive from Phoenix , about the same as going to Midland / Odessa . The Mexican race is very interesting , why the Stealth  over the Viper though ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 19, 2013, 10:17:06 PM
I think it's just a couple weeks before NORC and perhaps a couple weeks after SSCC? 

Steve Waldman (CEO and pres of SSCC org) said he uses a WRX for the Mexican Rally as it's faster on those roads ...  So the Stealth won't brake as well, but it'll kick a 4 banger Subaru without much work.  Add 500hp if I us my 16Gs, headers/inj/etcetcetc and the Stealth will kick hug butt after 100mph too.  I have a new clutch, 6 spd trans, etc.  Plus if I might wreck ... it's about $50K cheaper in a Stealth TT. 

I assume that Steve meant the AWD works better so the roads must be twisty and under 100mph.  Ray was telling me that they finally have a class that doesn't require a 6 point cage and he can run his vette in a really slow class and just enjoy the trip/holiday.

Too many miles to drive the Viper.  Stealth is at 200,000kms so i'll add a new engine and only thing left is to do oil change in diff and transfercase.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 22, 2013, 01:15:06 PM
The engine builder just phoned. They hope to have the new Manley 2.02/1.60 valves here this week and new seats.
They are very confident their porting work will be worth at least 80hp. Valve upgrade will add to that.
I'm wondering if I should leave the low boost pulley on the Paxton until I'm used to driving the car with the new motor in it?
What do you guys think?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 22, 2013, 04:46:23 PM
Since it's so expensive to tune the car just do it right the first time Sheldon.  You can adjust it for both psi or maybe you need to tune the car twice and buy a flash tuner to hold both tunes?  Ask Torrie.  One advantage of an AEM is that it can hold 3 tunes.  Perhaps they will set you up with a laptop program and do both tunes then you could reprogram the Split Second box for the different levels of boost? 

With the Roe blower system and the Vec the car is tuned and the vec/pcm adjusts the tune according to the boost so I can change the blower pulleys and the program automatically adjusts for the boost.  It's possible you'r is the same?  Adjust the tune for the high boost and then install the less boost (bigger) pulley.  Upgrade to the higher boost pulley when you have a use for the extra power.

Only driving problem I had was when I used too high a gear.  When the tire broke loose in 4th gear at 40mph the car lost control.  Before I realized I was sideways the car was backwards.  Just keep within range of the gears and you should be able to drive though what comes. :driving:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 22, 2013, 06:08:55 PM
Gotcha.
my split second box does not do my tuning. I have an SCT remember?
They hold 3 tunes, and torrie does adjustments for free within reason. Hes the man!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 22, 2013, 09:03:46 PM
The SS box turns on your fuel pumps for sure and I think it must also be capable of adjusting timing and fuel dwell.  If you've got what I do you have the M doing most of the work with the SSbox (mine is the Vec 2/3) to make alterations to timing and fuel according to boost.  My Vec also turns on the water/meth. 

If you can't adjust it ... at least you can change the program with the three canned ones you have. 

You're a computer guy and if you can acess the ss it'd be easy for you to do your own tuning.  Although the PCM is supposed to do it for you ... There is about a 3+ psi difference in atmospheric pressure at Ely.  When I ran the mile there I shut off my w/m because of the alt. and ran leanest of 12.5 a/f during the mile run.  I usually keep the w/m on the rest of the time.  I can't get my laptop to connect to the Vec so I have to get someone else to do my programming ever since my HP was stolen in Texas.  POS.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 23, 2013, 08:49:14 AM
I will definitely quiz torrie more once we're running again on exactly what parameters are still ran by the SS box. I had to cut several wires from those boxes to disable certain "portions" of what they do that the SCT controls.
Once tuned, I likely will get a 93 octane tune, a 100 octane tune and a nitrous tune loaded on the sct.
It's a handheld, so a quick 60 second flash after filling with av gas or race fuel and it's ready to spank butt!

I am a computer guy, but I would NEVER trust myself to tune my own motor with the amount of money at stake.
I have tuned many carb'd jobs, but wouldnt' even consider tuning my own viper.
I data log, and dyno and send the info to the expert so it gets dialed in perfect.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 23, 2013, 09:26:49 AM
I would never suggest anyone do their own tuning, I was suggesting that someone computer literate (like yourself) ADJUST your tunes. 

I am neither computer literate nor comfortable tuning my cars, but I have adjusted the tune in my Vec and did leave it installed in the car so that I can make changes and adjustments to optimize the tune.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 23, 2013, 08:23:48 PM
I hear ya, but I would much rather send the info to Torrie to adjust it.
Things can go wrong in a hurry (just look at post #1 in this thread haha)
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 23, 2013, 10:53:00 PM
If you're not comfortable then you should definitely NOT do it.  I talked to C-note on the phone and he's about the same mind as you I think.  His car runs perfect except for a touch at tip in.  Joel needed to add more fuel to his tune when he took it to the track and dumped the clutch.  Gotta admit that it's a little tough to tune on the dyno for dropping the clutch with wrinkle slicks.   :idk:

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 24, 2013, 08:58:53 AM
If you're not comfortable then you should definitely NOT do it.  I talked to C-note on the phone and he's about the same mind as you I think.  His car runs perfect except for a touch at tip in.  Joel needed to add more fuel to his tune when he took it to the track and dumped the clutch.  Gotta admit that it's a little tough to tune on the dyno for dropping the clutch with wrinkle slicks.   :idk:

Haha! Yes, I think that would be the last time the dyno operator lets you on the rollers lol
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 24, 2013, 09:17:30 AM
That was part of it for sure. But I also think the 28" tires with the slick giving that steady load that street tires just can't produce.  @ 12.0 afr my motor is just not happy.  It likes to be around 11.3 afr.  Gotta love playing around for 15 minutes and seeing your gauge drop drastically lol
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 24, 2013, 09:20:03 AM
That was part of it for sure. But I also think the 28" tires with the slick giving that steady load that street tires just can't produce.  @ 12.0 afr my motor is just not happy.  It likes to be around 11.3 afr.  Gotta love playing around for 15 minutes and seeing your gauge drop drastically lol

Ugggh! What tires are you guys running for the track? Do you keep a spare set of rims to keep the slicks mounted on? What tire/rim combination if you don't mind please.
Ted, you run the Hoosier R6 you said?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 24, 2013, 09:25:09 AM
Ccw drag pack. Hoosiers quick time pro. 14.5 x28x16. Only fits non abs gen 2's
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 24, 2013, 09:37:34 AM
Ccw drag pack. Hoosiers quick time pro. 14.5 x28x16. Only fits non abs gen 2's

I think mine has ABS, but really don't know for sure.. haven't driven it for a long time.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 24, 2013, 09:41:23 AM
They got abs in 01
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 24, 2013, 10:00:15 AM
Then I'm set. Know of any good suppliers for that tire/rim combo?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 24, 2013, 10:16:52 AM
I think there is a used set for sale on the alley.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 24, 2013, 11:01:18 AM
I just happen to have a set that has NEW wrinkle slicks.  I guess I could find some pics (or take a few) later today.  Make me an offer.  Joel, they should fit on my '01 ...  The calipers and mounting are different on the ABS, but I think they're the same size and offset.  I know the fronts don't fit on the 14" brakes.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 24, 2013, 11:16:18 AM
I was always told they don't fit abs cars.  But I can't say if they fit the rear and not the front ect

You should try one on the rear. I'd be curious about that.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 24, 2013, 03:10:56 PM
I bought them for the TT ('99) but can't see why they wouldn't fit the ABS.  Tried the fronts on my Roe Racing 14" brakes and found out they aren't even close to fitting.  Ignore the perfect '01 5 spokes with like new PS1s.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on November 01, 2013, 07:41:27 PM
Still no motor here, and forecast for 22cm of snow this weekend here. Looks like its a sealed deal that the car will run next year.
Sleds are almost ready to ride in three weeks, bring on the snow!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on November 02, 2013, 08:04:33 AM
It always takes about double the time planned on any project. Especially in Canada where parts take forever to make there way home.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on November 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
You get snow yet Sheldon?  We got 7" at home and 4" here at work.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on November 12, 2013, 03:53:19 PM
You get snow yet Sheldon?  We got 7" at home and 4" here at work.

hey Ted, not sure how I missed this!
yes, we got 1.5 feet of snow last week, it's been warm and melting the last few days, so messy, can't keep vehicles clean etc.
Valemount still isn't quite ready, we leave in 9 days. Hoping it dumps!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on November 13, 2013, 03:07:08 PM
Snowing today all day. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on November 15, 2013, 06:55:48 PM
Nice! Heavy snowfall warning for Vale still, they should get about a foot in the valley before we leave on Weds. Just need to fill my two barrels of Avgas for the trailer and we're set!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on November 16, 2013, 01:56:16 AM
Careful on the roads.  After I drove the highway this morning there was a Semi spun out on one of the hills I just drove my tridem equipped Semi over and down.  Helper driving my pickup was having problems stayong on hwy and there was an absurd amount of pickups and cars in the ditch today.  Supposed to snow at least 10" all over BC.  It started snowing last night - uh, night before last night and snowed until a few hours ago.  Took my new Diesel 4x4 out for some wheel spinning so I could get stuff done after work today.  Slippery.  Skidded past my driveway 3 times today,  :lol:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: oldcolt on November 16, 2013, 05:52:21 PM
There was a 30 car pile-up north of Calgary today. QE2 was closed for hours.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on November 17, 2013, 05:31:04 PM
Took my new Diesel 4x4 out for some wheel spinning so I could get stuff done after work today.  Slippery.  Skidded past my driveway 3 times today,  :lol:

You bought a cummins? Got any pics? Congrats!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on November 17, 2013, 05:48:07 PM
There was a 30 car pile-up north of Calgary today. QE2 was closed for hours.

Happens every year. I don't get how people forget whats coming every fall.
We had a few nasty sled trips out west, stopping to check upside down vehicles for people inside etc. Not fun.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on November 17, 2013, 10:34:15 PM
 :-[  Uhhh, it's a work truck.  a Ford diesel.  Joel didn't give me either of his Dodge Diesels so I bought the Ford from my bud that bought a new Cummins 1 ton.  I needed a crew cab and long box and the price was right.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on November 18, 2013, 02:53:47 PM
:-[  Uhhh, it's a work truck.  a Ford diesel.  Joel didn't give me either of his Dodge Diesels so I bought the Ford from my bud that bought a new Cummins 1 ton.  I needed a crew cab and long box and the price was right.

Didja get a 6 leaker? Ooops, I mean "Liter" haha  :lol:
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on November 18, 2013, 07:30:46 PM
Yep, 6 liters of Ford.  Heard the 7.3L isn't the best choice for the early years.

I really wondered about the 6L when I couldn't find the oil filter until I opened the 'bottle' on the top of the intake manifold!  Poured 5L + 5L + 4L jugs of oil into that little 'bottle' before I finally got a full reading on that dip wire/stick.  Nothing like 1950's technology.  The powerstroke forums said that Ford designed oil filters and ones made by Fram are NFG and cause engine failures ... so perhaps I don't think I'm liking Ford much.  I wanted a Cummins but no one will sell.  Yours is worth too much Sheldon so I got this Ford. 

I installed the Pioneer stereo and Bluetooth works, added the wireless cell phone booster and when I went to wire in the portable Sirrius power supply I found that the 5V plug doesn't fit into the portable radio.

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on November 18, 2013, 07:48:24 PM
I bought a "Public Safety (Road) Radio" and when I priced them out they were $545 - 750 plus a $100 antenna $0-50 "programming fees" and taxes.  Tomorrow's installation.  Maybe we need to install these into our Vipers?  They run as much as 45 watts instead of the measley 3 watts of our cell phones.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on November 18, 2013, 09:03:14 PM
I put a Marathon Truck Boss sled deck on my truck over the weekend, so its up another $5500.00 haha.
Got her all washed up, and checked over for the trip on Wednesday, can't wait! They have gotten some good snow the last few days, and have a fresh meter of snow up top. No base though...
Cell phone booster eh, I didn't know you could get one for a vehicle! Does that give you cell service in the mountain roads?
I have 3 buddies that cooked head gaskets on their 6.0 in the last two years. Two of them are in dodges now, the other guy rebuilt her.
They are better on fuel than the cummins from all the sled trips we do, but not by much, and the torque isn't close. If you aren't towing heavy, and don't put a chip on it you should be 100%. An EGR delete is a very good thing for those engines though!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on November 18, 2013, 09:31:26 PM
This one has a CAI and a freeflow exhaust.  Waiting on the fuel milage but if I keep it after the winter I'll be using it to tow my TT GTS to Bonneville and back. 

I thought the cummins was far and above the best for all fuel mileage ...
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on November 19, 2013, 10:17:51 AM
This one has a CAI and a freeflow exhaust.  Waiting on the fuel milage but if I keep it after the winter I'll be using it to tow my TT GTS to Bonneville and back. 

I thought the cummins was far and above the best for all fuel mileage ...

None of them are too far apart in mileage, but this is my second 6.7. Most guys claim the 5.9 was better than the 6.7 for fuel, but they made less torque and HP from factory as well.
My 2011 did 12/13mpg factory. After doing full deletes (EGR, Cat, DPF, 5" TBE, AFE Stage 2, H&S with custom tuning), we bumped up to about 22 average.
My new truck is urea injected, and I have been really impressed with fuel mileage being completely stock. I will know more by the time we arrive in Valemount tomorrow though!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 18, 2014, 09:47:33 AM
Slowly making progress on this project!
I got my intake and valve covers back from the powdercoaters and am very happy with the turnout! Silver base coat, candy apple red, then sanded the ribs on the intake and lettering on the valve covers, and a clear coat over top.
Just waiting on the valve seats for the big valves for the heads, and then they can get that done.
I have all new brakes and shocks coming from Sean, and a mess of other goodies as well.
Engine due here within 2 weeks, and then start putting this girl back together.
Spring weather here, and I'm getting MAJOR Viper Fever to hear this thing run!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 18, 2014, 09:51:14 AM
Here she is. Crappy cell phone pic, and re-sizing it numerous times to fit on here does not come close to doing it justice...
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 18, 2014, 10:05:25 AM
One more pic, of that sexy butt that keeps me motivated to get her running!
Will be car show ready in 2 months I hope!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Sybil TF on March 18, 2014, 11:44:16 AM
I like the blacked out taillights! Is that easy to do?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 18, 2014, 11:50:06 AM
I like the blacked out taillights! Is that easy to do?

Thanks. You can buy "VHT Nightshades" from Canadian tire. It looks ok for a short while, but has a slight purple tinge, and scratches easily.
These are done at a paint shop, gloss black, reduced. Tons of clearcoat and wetsanded.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on March 18, 2014, 11:54:10 AM
OH Yea.....

(http://thevipergarage.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1271.0;attach=1026;image)
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 18, 2014, 12:24:24 PM
OH Yea.....

(http://thevipergarage.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1271.0;attach=1026;image)

I can't wait to see a motor underneath that!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on March 18, 2014, 12:53:58 PM
Well... there is that. Snow is gone, you better step it up
Vj
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 18, 2014, 01:13:11 PM
Waiting and more waiting... pistons were supposed to arrive last week. Stopped in on Friday and still weren't.... Ahhhhhhh engine builders... lol
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on March 18, 2014, 02:01:47 PM
That's Right!!!

You're in the parts hostage region of North America
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 19, 2014, 09:43:42 AM
That's Right!!!

You're in the parts hostage region of North America

Strange how stuff made in the U.S takes so long to get. Tony mentioned their stuff is taking longer than usual to get as well, so its' not just a Canadian thing.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on March 19, 2014, 11:41:03 AM
Strange how stuff made in the U.S takes so long to get. Tony mentioned their stuff is taking longer than usual to get as well, so its' not just a Canadian thing.

Are you saying Canada to US is also slow? or Us to US?

Happy all my stuff goes as letter and not package, still gets there pretty fast
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 19, 2014, 01:00:02 PM
All of the above.. u.s to u.s slow. U.s to canada slow. Not a shipping issue, its the manufacturing process holding us up.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on March 19, 2014, 01:18:50 PM
Oh....

That's never good.  Back orders never seem to be a priority these days
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on March 19, 2014, 08:54:15 PM
Sheldon I get my stuff sent to Washington and go visit my Viper buddies there if I'min a hurry to get my parts.  I did get rings in 3 days, but the cost of the $90 rings was $400.

Drill the top center of the valve covers and add 1/2" vent tubes/hoses to them.  Vent each valve cover separately.  Plug the stock end vents as they'll leak oil upon decel.  With the high boost and large ring end gap that Paxton will need crakcase venting or it'll blow gaskets all the time as well as having significant oil consumption.  You probably have this planned for already?  Ordered breather tanks from Roe?

Those look awesome!  Wondering if you bought Autoform TBs or if those are a later project?  I think that the manifold needs to be ground larger at the TB openings for them.

I'm wondering if you're interested in selling me the rad/ic co2 spayer from your car?  I think I'll need something like that for my Salt Flats runs ...  100F+ runs with a 1100whp TT would certainly have a heat issue and I'd like to install heat prevention BEFORE I run the car on the salt.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 20, 2014, 08:51:49 AM
Sheldon I get my stuff sent to Washington and go visit my Viper buddies there if I'min a hurry to get my parts.  I did get rings in 3 days, but the cost of the $90 rings was $400.

Drill the top center of the valve covers and add 1/2" vent tubes/hoses to them.  Vent each valve cover separately.  Plug the stock end vents as they'll leak oil upon decel.  With the high boost and large ring end gap that Paxton will need crakcase venting or it'll blow gaskets all the time as well as having significant oil consumption.  You probably have this planned for already?  Ordered breather tanks from Roe?

Those look awesome!  Wondering if you bought Autoform TBs or if those are a later project?  I think that the manifold needs to be ground larger at the TB openings for them.

I'm wondering if you're interested in selling me the rad/ic co2 spayer from your car?  I think I'll need something like that for my Salt Flats runs ...  100F+ runs with a 1100whp TT would certainly have a heat issue and I'd like to install heat prevention BEFORE I run the car on the salt.

Hey Ted! I was starting to wonder if you were ignoring my thread :)
I ordered those big badazz 70mm T.Bs from Sean already, should be here in 3 weeks along with brakes and suspension, and new digital water/meth system to replace the old analog setup currently in it (and it was leaking badly too from the pump). I did a big 8 Litre tank for W/M in the trunk, then I will have my washer fluid reservoir back again as well.

I certainly will not be drilling on those freshly coated valve covers now, why didn't you warn me earlier haha. I will likely build a custom catch can setup like I did on my SRT10. The Gen3 used to pool oil up in the intake badly, the catch can helped that.

As for the parts, it's not a shipping issue, it's a manufacturing issue taking all the time to get built. Freight typically has only taken 4-5 days, even from Florida or North Carolina. The pistons are custom designed from Wiseco, fully coated for nitrous and boost etc. A set came a couple months ago, and they were wrong, so waiting for the proper set to come again.

I will keep the I/C chiller setup as well. I just need to re-wire the nitrous and chiller as the polarity was backwards on them (if you grounded the switch with a screwdriver, it would spray, but would not spray when TB's pressed the switches.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on March 20, 2014, 09:47:51 PM
Not ignoring anything, just don't have internet all the time.  Busy as well. 

I do take the time to dream and have ordered a couple small parts for my cars.  Also have some new expesnive parts waiting for me to get to them.  Next month is visiting time and May is Nevada Open Road Rally Challenge.  Sounds like you would have to take your Gen 3 to run that middle of May if you still plan to make it?  Your fast blown GTS would be great and probably take home a podium finish in the Halfmile with the new rules.  Only the beginners and slower classes can run the halfmile now.  Faster classes and minimium 3rd time rally cars run the standing mile.  That rule took most of the extremely fast cars out of the halfmile competition and allows the newer cars to run for podium finishes without having to race the 1000hp cars.

Nitrous not allowed at NORC/SSCC by the way.  Mojave Mile is only going to run this spring of this year because the space port is doing space flights again ... 

I'd call the powder coaters and ask them how to safely drill the valve covers though.  It is important to get the vent hoses top and middle with baffle plates under them though.  Perhaps they can be baked in the oven to soften the coating and then drilled?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 24, 2014, 06:34:22 AM
Yeah, I got new that they have to open my ankle back up next monday to remove all the hardware from when I broke it may 2013 (2 pins, 2 plates and 9 screws).
Thats going to have me on crutches for 3 weeks and really slow down the engine re-install. Darnit!
I spoke to Sean this morning, he said the venting my engine has now is sufficient, no need to mess up $600 in powdercoat thank goodness. He should be sending my goodies within a week it sounds like!!! Cant wait
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on March 24, 2014, 12:18:49 PM
ouch!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 24, 2014, 01:02:08 PM
Well, hopefully less ouch after it heals up! Haha

ouch!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on March 24, 2014, 09:22:25 PM
Yeah, I got new that they have to open my ankle back up next monday to remove all the hardware from when I broke it may 2013 (2 pins, 2 plates and 9 screws).
Thats going to have me on crutches for 3 weeks and really slow down the engine re-install. Darnit!
I spoke to Sean this morning, he said the venting my engine has now is sufficient, no need to mess up $600 in powdercoat thank goodness. He should be sending my goodies within a week it sounds like!!! Cant wait

Damn, that means that you won't be able to make the NORC?  Take the Gen 3?  I remember TNT showing up at Harrison Hot Springs on crutches with a freshly rebuilt ankle.  He said, "It still clutches for shifting so I'm OK."   :)  That was a great weekend.  Or if you wanted to get the rookie class and racing school done, you could bring an automatic?  Best of luck on the healing bud!

It'll probably only smoke slightly on decel and be a few hp less.  You were planning on 8-900hp ...   ?


Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on March 24, 2014, 10:42:13 PM
Haha that cracks me up, reminds me of last summer. We did a quad rally up in northern alberta muskeg.... with a gabage bag over my cast. After a full day in swamp water the smell of that leg when the cast got cut off was something else....
as for hp, we are expecting over 1000. But hate to set myself up for disappointment so lets say 600 to be safe lol
I plan to get my nhra certification at castrol this summer. Go from there for tge big kid half and full mile events once im used to running the car with the new build. 200 plus extra hp on motor alone, plus almost triple the boost should be a big learning curve as far as driving goes. I am very anxious to whoop some butt with the ACR to say the very least!

Damn, that means that you won't be able to make the NORC?  Take the Gen 3?  I remember TNT showing up at Harrison Hot Springs on crutches with a freshly rebuilt ankle.  He said, "It still clutches for shifting so I'm OK."   :)  That was a great weekend.  Or if you wanted to get the rookie class and racing school done, you could bring an automatic?  Best of luck on the healing bud!

It'll probably only smoke slightly on decel and be a few hp less.  You were planning on 8-900hp ...   ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on March 26, 2014, 08:01:30 PM
The SSCC allows that the Vette and Vipers are built with a production roll bar already installed n the car so we can race the classes requireing a rollbar without having to add one until you want to run the 160mph Rally class.  Mojave Mile requires a rollbar for cars at 175mph and a rollcage after 200mph.  Lots of rules for drag racing.  Probably $10K worth of safety sticker parts and suits, cage, etc etc.

I am needing to buy a $2000 driver's race suit for my land speed runs because that is also over 200mph.  My full cage requires modificattions to run at the Salt Flats and the tires are worth $1000 each.  $750 for a Fire extinguisher system for most high speed classes.  My TT GTS has SFI Titanium axles, SFI chromemoly driveshaft, Macleod clutch (hopefully SFI stickered for $3400), Chrome moly flywheel etc. 

All events want an SFI Scattershield in the car and salt flats require a scattershield for all modified cars.  The one I bought last year was $850 (by the time I received it) and took 8 - 10 weeks to have built after they told me that I'd have it in a week.  You might want to buy one now and instal that behind the engine?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on April 17, 2014, 10:44:04 AM
STILLLLLL Waiting on an engine.
BUT, I have the all new Billet Drag shocks, all new black zinc coated dimpled/slotted rotors and new EBC Reds installed and it looks great! Sits 1/2" lower than it did with the Konis that were leaking oil all over my shop floor. It's going to look killer once theres an engine and transmission weighing the front down a bit more!
I'm taking the hood off this weekend in preparation for a new engine to arrive, and hopefully be bolting it in within a few weeks.

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on April 17, 2014, 11:25:11 AM
Looking really good Sheldon. I think you got me beat on timeline.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on April 17, 2014, 11:55:55 AM
I think that there are better choices than the intake bolts, but if you use washers both sides it should work out OK. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on April 17, 2014, 09:46:05 PM
Thanks Joel! Well she wont do much till its making noise but nice to see a bit of progress either way!
Looking really good Sheldon. I think you got me beat on timeline.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on April 17, 2014, 09:47:53 PM
Huh?! Not sure what you mean by that boss. Haha
I think that there are better choices than the intake bolts, but if you use washers both sides it should work out OK.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on April 17, 2014, 10:29:24 PM
If you're using a chain the large bolt holes (power steering bracket or ground) holes are a better choice and easier to fix if you damage the threads in the head.  If you have valve covers on (with new powder coat) then the intake bolt holes would be a better choice so as not to damage the paint.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on April 18, 2014, 08:45:06 AM
Ohhh i see. Youre talking about when i drop the motor in lol. I thought that was a response to my paste about brakes and shocks haha. I have an engine leveler and crane. But might drop engine and trans in together at the shop to use overhead crane instead.
If you're using a chain the large bolt holes (power steering bracket or ground) holes are a better choice and easier to fix if you damage the threads in the head.  If you have valve covers on (with new powder coat) then the intake bolt holes would be a better choice so as not to damage the paint.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on April 25, 2014, 10:44:48 AM
Sheldon, you said you were installing Darton sleeves?  As in the thick wall 1500+hp sleeves?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on April 25, 2014, 12:39:08 PM
Nope, i didnt say that. Ive never even heard of them actually.
Sheldon, you said you were installing Darton sleeves?  As in the thick wall 1500+hp sleeves?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on April 25, 2014, 02:04:12 PM
Drummond racing does them. Not cheap. I think it's a 3-4k job to do the sleeves.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on April 25, 2014, 02:39:31 PM
Did you guys re-sleeve your engines? Stock sleeves crack, or what's the concern?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on April 25, 2014, 03:05:38 PM
I haven't done mine yet. But yes they are on the thin side of things. And darton use ductile iron which is suppose to be better.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on April 25, 2014, 03:39:14 PM
Stock can't take the high hp, high boost applications as they can only flex so many times before they crack

My TT has sleeves  Many people are using Gen 4 sleeves I hear
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on April 26, 2014, 12:33:09 AM
Shoot, my blowers only making 4 psi as of current. If I pop it up to 10 or 12 im still very safe. I will probably build a tt car down the road and let jenna have the acr.
Stock can't take the high hp, high boost applications as they can only flex so many times before they crack

My TT has sleeves  Many people are using Gen 4 sleeves I hear
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on April 26, 2014, 09:27:50 AM
There's a few posts on our facebook.com page with pics of Darton sleeves Sheldon.  under $3K for dry sleeves, more for wet sleeves. 

You will be fine at 10psi.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on May 01, 2014, 09:36:16 PM
Well.... I still don't have an engine for my car. +20 weather, and a shiny viper locked in my garage. Great times.  :-\
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on May 01, 2014, 10:45:37 PM
What happened now?  You have to be as disappointed as Joel with the 5 month wait time for his parts to show up.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on May 01, 2014, 11:23:15 PM
It really is depressing when shit just won't line up.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on May 02, 2014, 07:28:19 AM
Billet mains just showed up this week. Hoping to see a complete shortblock when i stop in on the way home from Valemount. Once thats done they should be able to get cracking. Exhaust valve guides were shot, so they had a hard time finding replacements.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on May 02, 2014, 07:43:47 AM
Let me know where they found some or part #

I have a stock set of heads that need a guide or two to make them good again.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on May 02, 2014, 11:30:39 AM
I have several sets of heads ported and new or slightly used.  I was thinking about porting and using my GTSR heads

I had 2 Bronz guides installed in one head that came from the factory with .005" oversized guides and stock valves.  Those heads were warranty replaced so I got them with 5000mi and ported them.  Surprized that factory could make a exh guide size mistake, but my machinist told me it's actually quite common although not usually on a Dodge.

I don't understand how it's possible to wear out those hardened guides with 30,000mi?  They should last about 300,000miles ...  it should be impossible to wear out the guides in these engines.  I know that people often drill out the valve guides for bronze inserts for performance, but I never heard of wearing out any. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on May 22, 2014, 09:42:18 AM
No Exciting news here guys.... still no engine!!!  ???
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on May 22, 2014, 10:34:32 AM
That's just wrong
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on May 22, 2014, 11:19:14 AM
Wish I had a spare engine to lend you.  That's a bummer.  Seems sort of common in the premium car world though.  My buddy in California bought a Z06 to run with my Viper in SSCC.  Took a week to blow up the engine.  It took him over a year to get the engine built and a roll cage into his car.

When he finally did bring it out, he ran 146mph in the mile which was fast enough to get the Fastest Halfmile trophy, but not faster than the 151mph speed I'd set previously.  He had planned to run with 750whp but ended up with 650.  Hopefully you'll receive your engine soon?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on May 22, 2014, 02:01:20 PM
He told me today that the Program mains we got have no provision for the thrust bearing (or something to that effect). Long story short, he had to send the block and mains to another machine shop to correct that, and apparently they found 2 more valve guides that were cracked, so he is waiting on those from Arrow Racing.
Looking at another month to get my engine, and then likely a month until it's running and tuned. Then looking at 6 months of winter again haha
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on May 22, 2014, 05:02:11 PM
You're having luck like mine has been lately. 
 
I've never heard of cracked guides before.  I would have thought the valves would have bent well before the guides would crack - or the cracked guides would have been caused by bent valves?

I've got 3 broken HRBs in my TT.  2 oil pumps for the transmission and I need to reposition my spray jet as my first position wasn't the best choice apparently.  My air intake is now a problem, but when I got the car it was "the best CAI invented".   I commissioned a custom set or rearend gears (2.73) and then bought a complete rear diff that already has those same gears installed!  LOL. 

Joel's been rebuilding his engine regularly and now is working through problems with his car.  Clint spent mega bucks on his Paxton Viper then blew the posi ... 

WELCOME to the club Sheldon!  I guess the fastest guys have the most issues to sort out? 

Our modifications are only part of the money and effort we put into our machines. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on May 22, 2014, 05:29:19 PM
Yeah it can be very frustrating. I normally start around November going over stuff and even that is rarely enough time......

Have you giving any thought about running the stock mains for the summer. I know it sounds wrong but ......
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 05, 2014, 09:37:17 AM
Still not running, but I pushed her out of the garage to take a couple pictures in natural light last night!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 05, 2014, 10:09:56 AM
 :hayes:

Looking good.  You going to install a stereo/Bluetooth while waiting Sheldon?

After that car I discovered the Anti-toe stifferener brackets to the rear suspension?  Makes a big difference when applying brakes.  Archer said that the wheels toe-in alignment in the rear can go out as much as 3/4" under hard braking.   I would assume that the sheels could toe-in about 3/4" when dumping the clutch as well.  The stiffener brackets only take a bit over an hour to install.   The Gen 3 was redesigned to overcome this Gen1/2 problem.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 05, 2014, 10:13:06 AM
If you do the stereo head unit upgrade don't chop the car DIN cable, buy an end from an Infinity system or a stereo store and wire from that.  The car wires in the DIN cable are merely a couple strands and difficult to solder.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 05, 2014, 10:29:52 AM
Nice and shiny.

But no motor .....  :-\
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on June 05, 2014, 11:03:53 AM
Looks great !
 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 05, 2014, 02:25:07 PM
Thanks Guys!
Was nice to see how the paint looked outside for once. I have insane bright lighting in my garage, so it makes the color look much darker when outside.

Ted, I just sold the stereo gear that I had planned on putting into the car as I don't even have an engine still. Once it's running, we will be doing custom interior and stereo next year.

Even before the new engine you could hardly hear yourself think in that car, so not sure what I will do. I'm sure we will dynamat the entire car like my trucks get, as well as our escalades, and go from there.
It will be Focal and JL gear as that is what we run in everything, and it's AWESOME!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 05, 2014, 03:04:00 PM
Most Vipers get JBL.  I have JBL amps (800w), active crossovers and 13 speakers in the car.  He had custom cabinetry built into the rear and door panels modified.  It had an impressive Eclipse head unit that included navigation etc.  The faceplate was toast so I replaced it with a JVC Bluetooth.

For racing I redesigned the rear and installed the amp to the side with the subwoofer removable now.  I do lots of long hwy trips and if someone buys my Roe GTS I'll drive the TT. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 05, 2014, 03:23:55 PM
JBL is entry level stuff in comparison. The Focal 3 way set in my mega cab was 3k just for speakers, the high def amps we run are 1200 each...
I will do a flip up TV in the car when the time comes a set of KRX3's and an HD 600/4 to run them. You haven't experience music until you have heard focal, but we are pickier than most people with audio.
Not too worried about stereo until she runs, that is why I sold the Focal Polyglass series I had set aside for the car as well as the HD750/1 and HD600/4.
Pretty sure the stereo in my truck would make you poop your pants haha

Most Vipers get JBL.  I have JBL amps (800w), active crossovers and 13 speakers in the car.  He had custom cabinetry built into the rear and door panels modified.  It had an impressive Eclipse head unit that included navigation etc.  The faceplate was toast so I replaced it with a JVC Bluetooth.

For racing I redesigned the rear and installed the amp to the side with the subwoofer removable now.  I do lots of long hwy trips and if someone buys my Roe GTS I'll drive the TT.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 05, 2014, 04:36:33 PM
 :lol:  I had only treble when I drove the car home. 

AfterI replaced the head unit I trailered the car to Calif and Vegas where I busted the tranny.  I removed the sub and 500w amp as well as the cabinetry.   Truth be told I'm happy with the Viper stereo once the speakers and crossovers were in it/them.  Yours still had stock rear speakers but just the door and crossovers were a huge improvement.

I'm happy with a mediocre stereo.  The huge stereo in the TT came with the car.

Usually the stereo guys just want loud exh.  You're strange wanting power as well!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 05, 2014, 05:57:25 PM
Loud exhaust is my stereo lol
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 05, 2014, 06:48:32 PM
Loud exhaust is my stereo lol

Darn rights! If only yours was as impressive as teds hahaha
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on June 05, 2014, 06:51:00 PM
Those dam turbos I tell ya lol
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 05, 2014, 08:35:10 PM
Those dam turbos I tell ya lol

I promise i will make enough noise for the both of us! At least you had a quick taste of venom while shecwas runnin!
Any canadian get togethers planned for later summer guys??? Would be great to meet up!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Asp Man on June 05, 2014, 09:51:06 PM
August 8, 9, 10th in Ucluelet. Might be a room or two left. Great to have you join us!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 05, 2014, 10:38:01 PM
Salt Flats about the first weekend of Sept.  Starting Thurs 6am is SSCC in Las Vegas to do Rookie driving course.  That's a 4 day event. 

Post any events that you plan to attend.  There's several Viper owners in your area as well.  Hissssss not having a BBQ this year Greg?

Washington VOA is planning several autoX events and they have dyno days etc.  I post here, on FB and sometimes do an email to Western Cda VOA members when I go somewhere and invite everyone.  Only a few are into competitive events though.

I'd like to do a supercar event like RacetheBase was near here where we have another 5 mile runway that it may be possible to "permit"?   I admit that I prefer spanking Lambos, Ferraris, MacLarens and S7s as well as Corvettes!  "Davenport's" has an 800whp Z06 TT that would be fun to play with.  He was 333kph0206mph or thereabouts in the 1.8mi.  There's also "the World's Fastest Ferrari" (enzo) and a modified M
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 05, 2014, 10:43:42 PM
Sheldon, my 4" exhaust TT GTS is also a lot quieter than my Roe GTS - except at highway speeds where the drone of the TT is the loudest I've heard.  My Roe is like yours except louder but we can easily whisper at highway speeds. 

Did you remove your cats? 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 06, 2014, 06:48:23 AM
I meant get togethers in canada more so than vegas etc. Something that i dont have to stress over taking the car after a rebuild.
Yeah i did headers and cat deletes in 2012 and it got very loud and stinky lol.
Its going to be a lost nastier with the new setup.

Where is Ucluelet Aspman??
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Asp Man on June 06, 2014, 08:58:02 AM
I meant get togethers in canada more so than vegas etc. Something that i dont have to stress over taking the car after a rebuild.
Yeah i did headers and cat deletes in 2012 and it got very loud and stinky lol.
Its going to be a lost nastier with the new setup.

Where is Ucluelet Aspman??

That's what I thought you meant, Ted likes to promote everything else  :D
Ucluelet is on the west coast of Vancouver Island, well worth the trip! We had the group out there two years ago, my wife and I were back last Sept. There are some details on the VOA Western Canada page and the Western Canada Viper Club webpage: http://westerncanadaviperclub.com/page2.html
Some pics from 2012 trip here: http://westerncanadaviperclub.com/page15.html
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 06, 2014, 09:42:33 AM
I like to promote everything!

My car is too low to get on the ferry. 

The schedule only had Van Island and the Kelowna Car Show listed.  Has something been added Greg?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Asp Man on June 06, 2014, 10:28:39 AM
I like to promote everything!

My car is too low to get on the ferry. 

The schedule only had Van Island and the Kelowna Car Show listed.  Has something been added Greg?

You have to ask to be on the truck deck, with typically more room and less idiots running around. Lots of lowered Vipers have managed. :idk: There's nothing new on the schedule, but if you have something in mind...put it out there! We need more members planning events!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on June 08, 2014, 04:54:39 PM
New schedule today.  Whistler soon.  Waiting for a Alberta host to set up a Jasper event.  Here's an event I attended that Trevor hosted.  We had a blast.

http://vipernation.com/2010/11/17/viper-jollies-in-jasper/

I did put out there that a few of us were going to PG drags.  I have a few emails that other Viper owners were going to attend from Vancouver.  They didn't so instead of asking the locals (Joel/Elie Fortin, Drew, Dave Morin & Paul to arrange something for Sat I didn't ask.  There should be a couple new members joining.  We had 3 Vipers and 6 Viper owners in attendance as well as a half dozen friends without Vipers.

We had fun.  although a couple club members were there ... they were locals.  I could host (with help from my friends) but seems no interest from the club.

With the 285s on the front my car has only 1.7" clearance.  When I took my Viper on the Ferry it was the ramps that were too angled and smashed my frame.  I would have to run the other set of tires to go on the Ferry.

Heading to visit Washington VOA guys next week.  Gonna see if I can replace/fix my fuel pump and maybe they are autoXing or would like to go track ... Anyone interested in coming along email me.




Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 09, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
Ron Koraluk in Edmonton is trying to set up a get together soon. Probably too soon for my car to attend though.
We have our local car show in Lloydminster this Saturday, and Vegreville has one on Sunday I'm told.
Jasper would be a good one if that got put together before fall!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on June 20, 2014, 08:36:48 AM
Sheldon ,
 Sent you a pm re yours
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on June 20, 2014, 11:55:58 AM
Got it, thanks Boss! An Email is on it's way back to you!

Sheldon ,
 Sent you a pm re yours
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 08, 2014, 10:46:38 AM
It seems that your beast is coming along nicely Sheldon.  any idea of when it's going to be running?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on July 08, 2014, 07:19:52 PM
Yes...........inquiring minds want to know
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 13, 2014, 08:41:08 PM
Hey Guys,
Sorry i havent posted in a while. The setup of the site changed and is a bit clunky to navigate now. Strangely if i look at the posts when im not logged on it loks normal..?
Engine is close. I booked the last 2 weekends off in a row to install motor but have had delays...
The spring retainers off the old motor would not work with the new Pac springs so had to order a set of gen 3 retainers.
Secondly, the custom cam i got is a 3 bolt, and my timing set was a one bolt. It boils down to the buulder forgetting that we needed a Cloyes adjustable timing set. That arrived this past friday and is installed, cam is degreed in and ready to party.
Retainers may have also arrived which means heads can get torqued down and measurements taken for custom length pushrods. Those take 1 day to get, and then set up the custom crower 1.7 adjustable rockers. From there, a quick run to the city to pick it up. Got it on the garage floor, set up the clutch, bolt the tranny on and drop er in!!!
I HOPE to have it running this weekend!!!!!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on July 13, 2014, 09:27:58 PM
On the upper right hand side of the screen you can pick your theme.  The Blue one or the black one.  I can change it for you also, just let me know

Happy things are progressing with your build
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 13, 2014, 10:28:14 PM
The restart after being offline for a couple days came back and was fine, but now I lost my smilies. 

You used stock Gen 3 retainers instead of chrome moly?  It means that you used Beehive springs.  You bought new valve keepers of course? 

Glad it's coming along.  I couldn't get my clutch to bleed so going to try and buy a power bleeder and ship it out here tomorrow if I can find one.  Hoping to get the tranny installed in a day after that and head to Abbot for a pre-inspection after that.

Good luck.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 06:40:35 AM
Gotter, thanks Fellas!
The retainers came from Todd at Arrow, I assume they are upgraded, but whatever they sent they are familiar with the build and would have shipped the parts accordingly for strength. Yessir, top of the line Pac beehive style springs.

Guys, I do need some pointers on installing the clutch. I have the alignment tool that SPEC sent, but have never installed or removed a clutch. I understand the clutch disk goes on first, then pressure plate over that and the alignment tool is used to centre the disk before torqueing the pressure plate.
Any pointers at all?

Also, my buddy that has set aside time the last 2 weekends in a row to help drop the motor/trans in is gone to Kelowna for a week now, so won't be around and that means his 2 ton overhead crane won't be available at his shop.
That being said, I don't think a cherry picker will lift high enough to drop engine/trans in together in my garage will it?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 07:10:24 AM
Some Pics
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 07:52:34 AM
More Pics
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 07:58:08 AM
It's only letting me post on picture at a time...
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on July 14, 2014, 08:22:40 AM
Looks good Sheldon !
 Sounds like you have a handle on the clutch install i would torque the pressure plate down evenly on a couple of step working up to correct bolt torque .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 14, 2014, 09:34:31 AM
Porting looks pretty good Sheldon.  Hard to tell from a pic, but I also prefer the boat shaped guides.  The combustion chambers are stock?

When bleeding your clutch I couldn't get pedal pressure this time (new Billet HRB) and last time the (new) hyd coupler was crooked and leaked somehow.  I ordered a Power Bleeder today to bleed my clutch painlessly. 

Yes, put the discs on the engine, then hold the pressureplate over it/them and use to plastic locater to align the discs.  If you're sure it's centered tighten the pressureplate down in stages as suggested by Darryl.  Be careful when installing the trans.  If you bounce the NRB on the bellhousing it could easily crack the Hub Release Bearing assy ...

Check the How Tos as Dave wrote a re and re Transmission thread.

As to the Cherry Picker ... it should be high enough to install an engine into a 4x4.  Extend the boom if needed.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 02:20:41 PM
Thanks Darryl!
I assume it's pretty straight forward once you start bolting parts together. The pressure plate clamps the clutch disk tight so as long as you keep the disk centred during the torqueing process I should be golden?

Looks good Sheldon !
 Sounds like you have a handle on the clutch install i would torque the pressure plate down evenly on a couple of step working up to correct bolt torque .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 02:23:20 PM
Thanks Ted.
Combustion chambers were re-worked, but they didn't remove too much material as I requested to stay at 9.5:1 compression for my setup.
Just got off the phone with the shop, and the retainers still aren't here, so hoping for Friday pickup again.
I've also never bled a clutch, so any tips there? Same as brakes I assume? Keep master full, bleed until no more bubbles?

Porting looks pretty good Sheldon.  Hard to tell from a pic, but I also prefer the boat shaped guides.  The combustion chambers are stock?

When bleeding your clutch I couldn't get pedal pressure this time (new Billet HRB) and last time the (new) hyd coupler was crooked and leaked somehow.  I ordered a Power Bleeder today to bleed my clutch painlessly. 

Yes, put the discs on the engine, then hold the pressureplate over it/them and use to plastic locater to align the discs.  If you're sure it's centered tighten the pressureplate down in stages as suggested by Darryl.  Be careful when installing the trans.  If you bounce the NRB on the bellhousing it could easily crack the Hub Release Bearing assy ...

Check the How Tos as Dave wrote a re and re Transmission thread.

As to the Cherry Picker ... it should be high enough to install an engine into a 4x4.  Extend the boom if needed.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 02:32:49 PM
"Boat Shaped Guides"? Whats the difference? Do I have them? Not a clue...?

Thanks Ted.
Combustion chambers were re-worked, but they didn't remove too much material as I requested to stay at 9.5:1 compression for my setup.
Just got off the phone with the shop, and the retainers still aren't here, so hoping for Friday pickup again.
I've also never bled a clutch, so any tips there? Same as brakes I assume? Keep master full, bleed until no more bubbles?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 14, 2014, 03:00:09 PM
"Boat Shaped Guides"? Whats the difference? Do I have them? Not a clue...?

GG and my GTSR heads are smooth across the top of the port where the guide is in the port.  Leaving the guides long (instead of chopping them off (GG) means more strength and longevity for the guides.  Pointed before the guide and then pointed after the guide speeds the airflow (so the theory goes).  Many just cut the guide off even with the port roof, but that does leave you a shorter guide and contributes to guide failure.

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 14, 2014, 03:06:16 PM
Thanks Ted.

I've also never bled a clutch, so any tips there? Same as brakes I assume? Keep master full, bleed until no more bubbles?

same as brakes.  Sometimes that doesn't work and then you can buy a Power Bleeder to bleed your brakes and clutch by yourself and with more reliability.  Several "normal" mechanics I talked to said that often they can't bleed the clutch hyd of the newer systems and need to use a Power Beeder.  It cost about $90 for an OTC and will allow you to power bleed your brakes and clutch much faster and easier.  It will also make certain that all the air is out of your system quickly.

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 03:07:55 PM
So I have that, or I don't? Should I bitch?
Crazy difference in the heads from stock to now. Looking at the first page with the factory CC and valves to the one I posted today it's massive difference in valve size. The intake valve actually is darn near touching the spark plug threads.

GG and my GTSR heads are smooth across the top of the port where the guide is in the port.  Leaving the guides long (instead of chopping them off (GG) means more strength and longevity for the guides.  Pointed before the guide and then pointed after the guide speeds the airflow (so the theory goes).  Many just cut the guide off even with the port roof, but that does leave you a shorter guide and contributes to guide failure.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 14, 2014, 05:22:29 PM
So I have that, or I don't? Should I bitch?
Crazy difference in the heads from stock to now. Looking at the first page with the factory CC and valves to the one I posted today it's massive difference in valve size. The intake valve actually is darn near touching the spark plug threads.

No Bitch.  some people boat shape the guides and some don't.  If the ports all look the same and they FEEL the same when you slide your finger through the valve opening and down the port walls they are probably good.  Send me a pic of your exhaust ports with the gasket on the head so I can see the port matching to the gasket ...?

Seriously, if the guy had a decent idea of what he's doing and the ports all look equal ... the heads are easily worth 100whp.   Some porters claim 100hp on normally aspirated engines.  Blown engines see a MUCH larger hp ratings than n/a. 

Did you read the long thread on "School me on Heads" on How To?  There is a ton of good information there and hopefully enough that a basic car guy can hold his own in a conversation on head porting.  If your head porter used templates that is similar to a cnc port because the templates are to show the shape and size of the ports to be equal.  DC Performance used to sell porting template kits for the "valve pocket" which added 25hp on a set of 440 heads when the rest of the ports were left stock.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on July 14, 2014, 06:28:01 PM
To bleed the clutch it's very easy. It's actually a 1 man job.  You pump the pedal 10-20 times that go crack the bleeder with the pedal OFF the floor. It must have a check valve in the system or something. 
Believe it of not I never had to bleed my clutch.  I simply hooked my line up and it was ready to go.  And that was with the line unhooked all winter long. 

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 09:17:56 PM
I don't have the engine back, but can send more pics once I have it in the garage. They build some very impressive race motors, it's specifically what they do, and the heads look like a HUGE improvement over stock.
I looked at the heads thread and picked what I wanted out of it. Methods and opinions vary between builders which is understandable.
I have done lots of port matching here. Vacuum cleaner and spray paint with parts bolted together is the absolute best method that I can do in my garage. The gasket match is not a good method as sometimes the gasket openings are not the same diameter as the header opening which would actually reduce flow if you opened up the head openings to gasket size (flow from head will deadhead against header flange in that case). Stuff like that... vacuum on header tube, spray paint through the intake runner and it sticks the the flange showing you exactly what material needs cut. That's what I do in my redneck garage anyways and have had positive results on previous engines.
Is it Thursday yet?!?!? I want my friggin' motor!

No Bitch.  some people boat shape the guides and some don't.  If the ports all look the same and they FEEL the same when you slide your finger through the valve opening and down the port walls they are probably good.  Send me a pic of your exhaust ports with the gasket on the head so I can see the port matching to the gasket ...?

Seriously, if the guy had a decent idea of what he's doing and the ports all look equal ... the heads are easily worth 100whp.   Some porters claim 100hp on normally aspirated engines.  Blown engines see a MUCH larger hp ratings than n/a. 

Did you read the long thread on "School me on Heads" on How To?  There is a ton of good information there and hopefully enough that a basic car guy can hold his own in a conversation on head porting.  If your head porter used templates that is similar to a cnc port because the templates are to show the shape and size of the ports to be equal.  DC Performance used to sell porting template kits for the "valve pocket" which added 25hp on a set of 440 heads when the rest of the ports were left stock.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 14, 2014, 10:16:03 PM
Sorry, to clarify more, the paint/vacuum deal gers reversed depending which surface you are matching.
I just went out to garage to compare my bellanger header openings to the gasket and several are close, and some actually need gasket material cut out as the header is larger than the gasket.

I don't have the engine back, but can send more pics once I have it in the garage. They build some very impressive race motors, it's specifically what they do, and the heads look like a HUGE improvement over stock.
I looked at the heads thread and picked what I wanted out of it. Methods and opinions vary between builders which is understandable.
I have done lots of port matching here. Vacuum cleaner and spray paint with parts bolted together is the absolute best method that I can do in my garage. The gasket match is not a good method as sometimes the gasket openings are not the same diameter as the header opening which would actually reduce flow if you opened up the head openings to gasket size (flow from head will deadhead against header flange in that case). Stuff like that... vacuum on header tube, spray paint through the intake runner and it sticks the the flange showing you exactly what material needs cut. That's what I do in my redneck garage anyways and have had positive results on previous engines.
Is it Thursday yet?!?!? I want my friggin' motor!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 14, 2014, 11:24:21 PM
When using your method the heads should be bolted, torqued and heat cycled a few times before using the paint etc.

I use used gaskets that have already been squished to the engine, never new gaskets.  Gaskets must conform to both ports and the gaskets must be marked since they have movement .  Using old gaskets to match port they come from already being heat cycled and bolted in the actual engine.  Port match before cleaning the surfaces so that the gaskets can be exactly as they were in the middle of the engine when it was running.

With the exhaust you don't want the ports as large as the gaskets usually.  Especially when the engine is stock.  Normally the floor of the port remains close to stock and the material NOT ground out works as antireversion baffles.  It slows top end but adds some torque (explains why stock comes this way).  Except for big hp blower engines the floor of the ports don't require much grinding.  Big hp engines that put out double the hp of stock or even more than triple what the stock heads were designed for means a different port will work as compared to a half volume gas flow ...  Triple volume airflow likes larger ports that would stall bolted onto a normally aspirated engine.  We can match the port size of a Striker R exhaust port but we won't get equal flow because Striker heads have their valves on a better angle for performance. 

There's a lot more stuff but with a big power blown motor usually bigger is best and exhaust can be enlarged to the gasket.  Port matching also means the headers need to be fitted as well, of course.  If the headers have movement then where the headers mount (high, low, forward or towards the rear) should be noted when unbolting them and tightening the bolts should be with the headers pulled to the same position.  They could be marked for location ... although when you shave the heads you change the match porting, and cause the intake manifold ports to be higher as compared to the head unless the intake face is also resurfaced (sorry don't remember the ratio of cutting).  And there's a lot more.

I think I've posted pictures of the GTSR heads, ports etc as prepared by Caldwwell racing (the factory GTSR team that built the Oreca race engines).  For 750hp and high revving engine these ports are optimium.  Our stock heads don't have enough material for porting as large as these GTSR heads were meant to be ground out to.  I have a head that was NEW and a head that was raced on one of the Winning GTSR machines.  My combustion chambers of these heads have one head massaged and one still has the CNC markings.  Ports are equal, however valve stems are larger than stockers. 

Your heads look OK in the valve pockets.  I assume that the intake ports from the manifold look straight and good or you would have said something?  I asked for the exh port with gasket and could give you an opinion as too how the openings compare to my several sets of ported heads and Joel's Striker Rs.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on July 14, 2014, 11:26:42 PM
"Boat Shaped Guides"? Whats the difference? Do I have them? Not a clue...?
Sheldon ,We found on the Extrudehone machine that there was little to no flow gain on the roof after the guide , that area sees no air movement of consequence and time spent in the area is likely wasted ,boat guides are best left for a visit to the lake .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 14, 2014, 11:31:43 PM
I will be receiving header wrap for my car this week and will be removing my custom 2" TT headers to wrap them.  This will uncover the TT heads which were ported for the car by Jeff Morey (genius and inventor of the Striker heads).  Just so that you know .... when I removed the heads off of my Roe engine and enlarged them as much as I was comfortable grinding I received a big increase in hp and torque.  At 2500' alt my Roe GTS ran 175mph in the standing mile.  After much another week of port grinding heads and intake I ran 181mph at 6,500' altitude.  Huge difference!  I think that if I upgraded my 5/6 gears I could easily run over 200mph in a standing miles closer to sea level now.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 15, 2014, 06:40:12 AM
Thanks Darryl and Ted.
I see roe shows 1 7/8" headers for the higher hp motors... i think mine are 1 3/4". Wonder if any difference would be made or if mine are ok. Thoughts?

I will be receiving header wrap for my car this week and will be removing my custom 2" TT headers to wrap them.  This will uncover the TT heads which were ported for the car by Jeff Morey (genius and inventor of the Striker heads).  Just so that you know .... when I removed the heads off of my Roe engine and enlarged them as much as I was comfortable grinding I received a big increase in hp and torque.  At 2500' alt my Roe GTS ran 175mph in the standing mile.  After much another week of port grinding heads and intake I ran 181mph at 6,500' altitude.  Huge difference!  I think that if I upgraded my 5/6 gears I could easily run over 200mph in a standing miles closer to sea level now.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 15, 2014, 09:27:40 AM
Thanks Darryl and Ted.
I see roe shows 1 7/8" headers for the higher hp motors... i think mine are 1 3/4". Wonder if any difference would be made or if mine are ok. Thoughts?

Headers are 1 7/8" OD or 1 3/4" ID sometimes.  Yours are fine.  Exhaust on a V10 doesn't matter as much as it does on a V8.  V8 can gain as much as 100hp but a V10 only sees about 25hp with a complete change.  SRT found that the 5 into 1 headers made about 4bhp more than your headers when they were researched the ACRX.  Your headers are Steel and coated inside and out.  Your engine compartment temps are much lower and the steel creates a better sounding exhaust tone.  Difference in size is small as well.  Your headers are superior for driving and should make a little more gas mileage.

I would make an educated guess that even at 1000whp 1/8" increase in header tube size would probably be insignificant and less than 10whp improvement while losing some streetability/low end while driving with 80whp down the road
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 15, 2014, 02:33:56 PM
Cool, just wanted to make sure. Especially at 2500+ shipped for the darn things I'm glad mine will be ok. At this hp level I will never notice even 50hp difference I'm sure cruising around.

Headers are 1 7/8" OD or 1 3/4" ID sometimes.  Yours are fine.  Exhaust on a V10 doesn't matter as much as it does on a V8.  V8 can gain as much as 100hp but a V10 only sees about 25hp with a complete change.  SRT found that the 5 into 1 headers made about 4bhp more than your headers when they were researched the ACRX.  Your headers are Steel and coated inside and out.  Your engine compartment temps are much lower and the steel creates a better sounding exhaust tone.  Difference in size is small as well.  Your headers are superior for driving and should make a little more gas mileage.

I would make an educated guess that even at 1000whp 1/8" increase in header tube size would probably be insignificant and less than 10whp improvement while losing some streetability/low end while driving with 80whp down the road
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 21, 2014, 12:49:46 PM
Well... I'm so far behind I think I'm ahead! haha
Few issues last week.
Had too short of installed height once retainers were installed, so the spring pockets on the heads need machined 100 thousandths.
Aaaaannnnnd the cam didn't degree to spec with the new cloyes timing set, so they are machining the cam gear to get the correct 110*. It came in at 136* which would not even let the engine start. Not sure the point of the adjustable set if it won't adjust far enough, but they spoke with the cam builder, and are machining as per their requests.
They have everything there, just have to do those two small steps and finish assembly then I can pick it up.
If it isn't done by Wednesday, I'm going to take my new camper to the lake for 4 or 5 days, as I'm not wasting another weekend "hoping" they will finish it for me in time.
Will keep ya'll posted as usual..
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 21, 2014, 03:31:49 PM
Wow, .1"?  You said Beehive springs, right? 

Cam centerline out by 26 degrees???  How is that even possible?  The Cloyes timing set still the same as the older LA sets?  Good thing they checked the cam centerline or things would have been a huge PIA.  Wonder if the crank trigger for a different year was used?  '03/04s used crank triggers on the flywheel instead of the middle of the crankshaft like all the rest of the V10s used?  Never heard of that happening  before.  1 or 2 degrees maybe.

Seems like quite a bit of Centerline for a V10 Sheldon.  My .509 cam (Duster) came with a 106 advance so I bought an adjustable cam sprocket and switched it to 110 degrees.  Difference being that the 106 CL redlined at 5500rpm while the change to 110 gave me power to 6,800rpm.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 21, 2014, 06:54:53 PM
Something funny with the site, or my thread. Tried replying to you a few times, and it was timing out, now I see I have a new post/subject.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 21, 2014, 06:58:40 PM
Beehive gen3 style springs yes. So much lift that coil bind was going to be a factor, so pockets had to get cut. PITA for sure, but at least it got caught.
And yessir, the cloyes timing set, which is THE set to get for Vipers, is only adjustable 6 degrees either way. They use the same timing set for gen 2 and gen 3, and the cam gear has markings on it for use in either to phase the cam correctly.

As for the centerline, mine is 110*, and in comparison a Crower Stage 4 race cam is 116* centerline. Crower stage 4 is 238/238 @ .050" and only .552" lift compared to my 250 @ .050 and .601 custom grind thumper.

I agree, we didn't anticipate either of the issues, but have to deal with them. Still being optimistic, but patience is wearing thin.

The fitting in my intake that I had Joel and yourself helping me figure out for my nitrous supply was stripped all to shit, I assume from the powdercoaters trying to stuff a different plug in there to coat it. Had to tap the hole and clean all the threads up, and put a new fitting in. Should be ready to roll now!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 21, 2014, 08:26:51 PM
I'm feeling all the frustrations too Sheldon.  I almost have my Motec install figured out and will probably take the car to Oregon to install and tune.  probably not until next year.  Wasted too much time waiting for parts and getting them fitted or replaced *sigh*  I need to figure out if I'm going to use my GTSR heads or not as they will require a new tune. 

Resting before pulling out my tranny again to check the clutch problem again. 

Might need to wait until next year and install a 9" rear end assy for the correct gear ratio selection while maintaining proper strength.


Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 21, 2014, 08:44:32 PM
It wouldn't be hot-rodding if it didn't take 10 times longer than expected, and produce bills that make you nauseous lol

I'm feeling all the frustrations too Sheldon.  I almost have my Motec install figured out and will probably take the car to Oregon to install and tune.  probably not until next year.  Wasted too much time waiting for parts and getting them fitted or replaced *sigh*  I need to figure out if I'm going to use my GTSR heads or not as they will require a new tune. 

Resting before pulling out my tranny again to check the clutch problem again. 

Might need to wait until next year and install a 9" rear end assy for the correct gear ratio selection while maintaining proper strength.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 21, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
Yah, timing out on me quickly too.  Jeff's busy and I asked Shep to reset the timer but I think he's on holidays.  Just part of MY frustrations.

Going to (hopefully) pull my transmission for about the 5th time in a row tomorrow.  I'm feeling the frustrations everyday Sheldon. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 23, 2014, 09:23:24 AM
I tried updating my thread last night but the site kept timing out and would not post.
Here goes....
I spoke to the engine shop again. They ended up cutting 0.070" out of the spring pockets, and got perfect measurements for installed height of valves/springs. Finally good news!
The cam builder got back to us yesterday afternoon and told us that he machines the holes out in the cam gear so they are slotted to provide further adjustment to get our 110 degrees on the cam. They are to do that today, get the cam degreed, timing cover installed and carry on.
The heads were getting installed last night, torqued up, and measurements taken for the custom length tube pushrods. Those ship overnight from the U.S (not sure where from... I assume Arrow?)
That being said, the pushrods should be here tomorrow, and then they can set up the custom Crower 1.7 rockers, and call me to rush up for pickup!
Planning to drop the motor in Friday night, and hopefully hear the sweet music of that V10 bark!!!
Getting excited again, I hope I don't have any more setbacks.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on July 23, 2014, 03:01:50 PM
Yah, the "time out" is a PIA.  After you write you post, Highlight it and "copy" it.  Restart the post and just "paste" your text into the blank post - it'll allow you to post it the second time.  No knowing code I' not able to readjust the time.  Tonight I'll look though my setting options and see if I can set it back to where it was before.  Don't know what happened to it.

Glad you've got forward movement with you car.  .070" is the thickness of the spring seats.  Should increase the longevity of the springs


'


Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on July 28, 2014, 08:22:31 AM
Well boys and girls, cross your fingers for me, I was told I can pick my engine up tomorrow.
Hopefully no more delays.
The engine shop was having a hell of a time with the custom cam we had built. I had to have my buddy Tony Sawyer from JTS Venom Performance call him to get him straightened out, and it sounds like we are on track.
The alignment pin had the guy buffaloed instead of just finding centreline and giving it 110*, he was trying to use the alignment pin to reference tdc and could not figure things out. Tony told him to cut the pin off the cam if that helped, and just set it at 110, and bolt her down.
One thing after another kind of gongshow, but hes finally on track and buttoning it up now.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on August 01, 2014, 04:07:17 PM
Getting there finally?  Bet you're smiling?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on August 01, 2014, 04:15:23 PM
Keep us posted BadACR, heard you picked up some coolant and saw my intake !
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 03, 2014, 09:44:10 AM
Hey Guys,
Yes, we dropped engine and trans in the car thursday night. What a sight for sore eyes!!!!!! Went really smooth, lots of work left to do, but will get back at it once were home from the lake tomorrow!
Yes Darryl, we had a great visit with Jim for a few hours, got the grand tour and lots of show and tell. Your intake looks awesome, i texted the pictures to Joel to check out last week.
I was hoping to come say hi to you but we were rushed for time, werent home untill near midnight.

Keep us posted BadACR, heard you picked up some coolant and saw my intake !
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on August 03, 2014, 01:23:34 PM
Hey Guys,
Yes, we dropped engine and trans in the car thursday night. What a sight for sore eyes!!!!!! Went really smooth, lots of work left to do, but will get back at it once were home from the lake tomorrow!
Yes Darryl, we had a great visit with Jim for a few hours, got the grand tour and lots of show and tell. Your intake looks awesome, i texted the pictures to Joel to check out last week.
I was hoping to come say hi to you but we were rushed for time, werent home untill near midnight.

 Sheldon , yes i am sure Jim gave you a good tour ,Very Knowledgeable guy ! You will be glad your changing over to the Evans coolant , i run it in everything .
 Stop in next time in town !
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 09, 2014, 04:34:46 PM
Exciting times! Got the car running and even got a short cruise!
Rear main seal is pissing oil everywhere so trans has to come out to repair (dammit!!!!!!).
Car is loading up with fuel really bad at idle, running like crap. Air fuel around 12 +/-, and tach shows about 850rpm. It sounds to me more like 1000-1200rpm.
Driving the car, a/f varies but stayed close to 14 driving undrr 3000rpm.
The car would idle up on its own between shifts etc up to 2900rpm +/- and i would have to slow rpm by braking in gear.
Got home, pulled plugs and driver side is lean( very light bown), passenger side is rich (dark brown).
After blowing a piston last year, the plugs were exactly like this too.
With the rebuild, we have new 02 sensors, new throttle bodies, injectors are all in different locations.
Im getting a p0118 code, which is coolant temp i believe.
Coolant guage isnt reading any temp.
Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on August 09, 2014, 08:17:48 PM
Yah, the "time out" is a PIA.  After you write you post, Highlight it and "copy" it.  Restart the post and just "paste" your text into the blank post - it'll allow you to post it the second time.  No knowing code I' not able to readjust the time.  Tonight I'll look though my setting options and see if I can set it back to where it was before.  Don't know what happened to it.

Glad you've got forward movement with you car.  .070" is the thickness of the spring seats.  Should increase the longevity of the springs


'

 I really think the site has been move to a different server (have no proof).  I have a really good connection, have not had it time out on me, however, I have noticed things seem to be a bit more cumbersome. 

Sorry..
Jeff
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 09, 2014, 10:24:49 PM
Found coolant sensor wasnt seated properly, cleared codes again and car ran much better. the revving up went away, idle sounds a bit better, but still needs tuning and the banks are not fueling equally.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 18, 2014, 06:00:39 PM
Things seem very quiet here these days, figured I should bore you with my project.
Last update was that I got the car running.
There was a MASSIVE oil leak from between the engine and flywheel. Had to pull tranny, clutch and flywheel off to repair.
Ordered a new rear cover with the mechanical seal installed, and a new gasket. The 3 pipe plugs in the back of the block were also only finger tight, so good thing I checkced those while I had the tranny out again..... (engine shop installed, but didn't tighten).
Put the car all back together and no leak!!!
I have a P0340 code, it's a camshaft sensor issue. The sensors are discontinued, so could not find one at the dealer, or any jobbers.
I did happen to find one at rockauto.com, and also ordered a new harness for it just in case. I should see those in 4 days I HOPE!!!! Once here, I will tear the intercooler, belts, alternator out to check the sensor and see what went wrong.
Once done, I can FINALLY tune the car.
It's making 5 psi at 3800 RPM, and the 345/35 Mickey Thompson D/R's go up in smoke immediately. Gobs of torque, and that thing just wants to fly. At 3800 RPM, the car pulls harder than it did at W.O.T before the build! I think it's going to be a handful once tuned, as it will be triple the boost, and 2500rpm'ish more.
Can't wait to get things wrapped up, tuned, and do a few 1/4 mile passes before snow flies.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 19, 2014, 09:19:04 AM
Fired her up to take to the carwash last night as it's supposed to rain for a couple days here, so rather see it clean sitting in the garage.
Got 2km from the house, and cam sensor code came on, started running like crap, then let out a huge backfire and died while driving.
Coasted to the side of the road, called a buddy to bring my long prybar that can reach the cam sensor and gave it a push with the prybar, and she fired up like it did the other day.
Started heading home, got about a km, and it started backfiring like crazy, shooting balls of flame out the back end and died. Popped hood, pushed against sensor again, cleared the code and it limped the 2km rest of the way back to my garage.
Going to tear down to get the cam sensor out over the next couple days.
I found a sensor and harness on www.rockauto.com. Very cheap, and they ship same day. I hope to see the parts on Friday, or Monday at latest.
Always an adventure!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: ViperJeff on August 19, 2014, 12:37:13 PM
Have I mentioned just how much I dislike cam sensors.....
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on August 19, 2014, 10:50:44 PM
It's possible that the sensor was adjust too tight upon start up and shaved the end off the sensor?  I read the procedure for the adjustment in my chassis manual.  I'll re read it for you if you have any questions Sheldon ...
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 19, 2014, 10:55:51 PM
Yup, thats exactly what tony (jts venom) thinks happened is engine shop had er in too deep and it busted er off.
oh the joys of modding lol
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on August 19, 2014, 11:44:04 PM
When the engine is sitting on the bench or stand it is sooooo easy to see the step in the camshaft since you can shine a light into the sensor hole ... Now it's inside the car you have to "feel" the step.  with all the stuff it's not so easy.  Tempted to take it back to them and get them to replace it???  I would be.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on August 20, 2014, 11:13:04 AM
I remember rotating my engine on the stand and it coming to a stop. Turned out it was the cam gear lip hitting the sensor.  Good thing I was rotating it slowly. 
Put a washer on the back side of the sensor bolt so it wouldn't seat so deep.

In your case the sensors is probably hurt.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 20, 2014, 10:16:00 PM
Tore the poor girl aprt tonight and got the sensor out. She buggered for sure. Joel, i texted you a pic to see the aftermath.
Hoping to see new part by friday then getter set up and start putting her back together. Ugggghhhhhhhhh fun and games!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on August 20, 2014, 10:51:51 PM
Well that was a good find.  It's an important sensor.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on August 21, 2014, 01:00:13 AM
If you get the tune done there may be time to come to PG and drag Sheldon.  Joel has used slicks and you may need them?  If I get my TT out I may ask Joel to rent me his slicks for a couple passes instead of burning off the sealer on my new slicks.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 21, 2014, 09:02:42 AM
I'm gathering a list of my "costs" so far on the engine shops errors so I can get reimbursed.
I chose to do the work myself, but had I not gone through the trouble, it would be around $1500 in labour to pay a shop to fix this for me.
On top of that, 2 oil changes, 30 litres of oil, a camshaft sensor and harness, a rear main seal and rear cover and gasket totalling well over $2000. Not to mention that theres part of a cam sensor floating around in a brand new $20,000 engine build.
If my business specialized only in 1 thing, I would certainly hope I could do that one thing right.
Will update you on what they tell me after I call.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on August 21, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
I kinda wish you would have sent me your engine. Your car would have ran months ago. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 21, 2014, 01:59:50 PM
Well shoot Joel, I kinda wish I did anything but what I did too lol

I kinda wish you would have sent me your engine. Your car would have ran months ago.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on August 21, 2014, 02:45:28 PM
I just dropped my F350 at the shop so they can REPLACE THE OLD injectors this time.  $1300.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on August 21, 2014, 03:41:47 PM
New sensor and harness just showed up at the door! I'm wrenchin tonight, really want to hear this bad girl bark the way it should!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on August 22, 2014, 03:24:42 PM
Joel and I finished his trans install and w/m leaks fixed. HRB is leaking! Joel's first clutch problem and my 6th or 7th HRB
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 30, 2014, 08:00:34 AM
Hey Guys,
It's been over a month since my last update I see!
Things are quiet around here, I figured I better stir things up a bit haha

So we got the car running, have put 1500 miles on the new engine, aside from a few minor setbacks things are coming along well!
We had a burnt plug wire, and a failed coil, so ordered JTSVP screamin demon coils, and the 10mm plug wires. It definitely was not hitting on all 10 before, but sounds much better now.

We strapped the car to a dyno last week, and the engine is VERY healthy to say the least. I now have a fuel system issue that I will be addressing in terms of ripping out the Paxton "split second" box, FMU, and piggyback fuel pumps.
I will be installing a drop in twin or triple in tank set up, -10 and -8 lines to and from the engine, new top feed rails and long snout injectors, a regulator and a return to tank setup.

Anyways, the car ABRUPTLY ran out of fuel at 4500rpm and 5psi of boost. However, at 4500 rpm, it layed down a respectable 740rwhp and 760rwtrq at only 5 psi WHILE smoking the tires on the dyno. If it wasn't boiling tires on the rollers, I'm sure it would have been sitting closer to the 800 mark.
So we are set up for 15 psi, and only making 5 psi, and engine will peak about 6300-6500 and we are only spinning to 4500 rpm.
Looking at the graph, I should see about 1150rwhp at 15psi / 6300 rpm in my humble opinion and my tuner agreed 100% with me.
This is WITHOUT the nitrous system that is in the car.

I have ordered an upgraded BOV for the intercooler, and have started designing a trunk mounted tank with a big pump and 1" lines to replace the factory Paxton air to water setup. With a new heat exchanger in the front, and a big ice box in the back, along with a fuel system rated for 1500hp I think the ACR will be one nasty lil beast of a car.

Joel, you may want to start stocking 6 transmissions and at least 3 rearends for when I come race with you in PG haha

Mornings are about 5 degrees celcius here lately, so it won't be long before the car is parked, which means tear it down to do more mods over the 7 month winter.

We are racing in Castrol in Edmonton Oct 11 and 13th, I just have to shortshift the car at 4500 rpm. I think if I can sneak a good launch, I should see a high 10 second time if nothing lets go.
Will keep you all posted next weekend after we have some timeslips in the glovebox.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on September 30, 2014, 08:12:15 AM
Man , that's some great numbers Sheldon.
If you come to pg I'm sure we can make sure your car makes it back home :)

Looks like I need to find more power myself lmao. 
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 30, 2014, 08:33:13 AM
Thanks Joel!
The friend that owns the dyno has a very impressive collection of supercharged fords. His 2014 5.0 mustang with a Paxton runs consistent 10.80's at 130+ on 609rwhp/580rwtq.
His 2013 GT500 runs 10.02 at 140'ish at 750rwhp.
He also has two ford lightning trucks running 11's at 650+rwhp.
I think if I can shift fast enough I will still get to take home a 10 second time slip (that was my only goal all summer!)

Joel, I'd like to have you and Ted come stay with us for a weekend next summer and do some racing at Castrol if you are game for a road trip. That is a beautiful track, and you guys will see much better numbers than P.G I'm sure.

I cannot imaging how insane your car would be if you turned the boost back up to 18psi! That automatic transmission and a solid rearend would be in your future!

Man , that's some great numbers Sheldon.
If you come to pg I'm sure we can make sure your car makes it back home :)

Looks like I need to find more power myself lmao.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on September 30, 2014, 08:57:43 AM
I would be game for that for sure. As long as car could be ready in time.

Auto and DSS rear is in the plans for sure. When is another question.
See what the budget looks like around Xmas time.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on September 30, 2014, 09:10:48 AM
Sounds awesome! Would be cool rolling into town in a few 1000+hp rides!
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 04, 2014, 07:53:07 PM
Looking better Sheldon.  10 should be a piece of cake as I'm thinking their times are factored?  If WE'RE LUCKY we might be able to convince Cote to bring his VS Viper and come along.


My primary focus will be the TT to the salt flats. I need to change over to water over air inter-coolers, redesign my air filter system,  fix my clutch, freshen the engine
, decide if I'm going to upgrade my heads to the unfinished GTS heads (after finishing), and tow my car to Oregon for installation help and tuning the Motec.  I need to add
a dash controller for boost as the power goes insane at 4500 rpm so I need adjustability.

 I'm hoping to add another fuel system and finish the Nitrous system in the Roe Viper (unless I damaged a cylinder last year).

Where is the Castro track?  Is that the one at Leduc?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 06, 2014, 01:05:10 PM
Hey Ted.
Who is Cote? Or do you mean Clint (C-Note?)

You have a lot of mods ahead like me! Never ending it seems, but good to have a project.

Castrol is just on the south end of Edmonton not far from the airport (Leduc is a suburb close by).

I found the equipment list you provided when I purchased the car from you Ted. It shows on the list that it has a Walbro 255lph in tank fuel pump. Do you know if that was verified by macedo?
It also shows that it has Unitrax 800HP axles, and a Carbon fibre spoiler so just wanted to confirm fuel pump before ordering, or dropping the fuel tank to visually inspect for part numbers on the pump.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Sheldon

Looking better Sheldon.  10 should be a piece of cake as I'm thinking their times are factored?  If WE'RE LUCKY we might be able to convince Cote to bring his VS Viper and come along.


My primary focus will be the TT to the salt flats. I need to change over to water over air inter-coolers, redesign my air filter system,  fix my clutch, freshen the engine
, decide if I'm going to upgrade my heads to the unfinished GTS heads (after finishing), and tow my car to Oregon for installation help and tuning the Motec.  I need to add
a dash controller for boost as the power goes insane at 4500 rpm so I need adjustability.

 I'm hoping to add another fuel system and finish the Nitrous system in the Roe Viper (unless I damaged a cylinder last year).

Where is the Castro track?  Is that the one at Leduc?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 06, 2014, 07:15:37 PM
  Your axleS look exactly the same as my 800 hp Unitrax axles.  They should be Unitrax, since they aren't busted.  Mine had a twisted spline and stock apparently
lasts for 1 or 2 clutch drops.  Your 750 is hp is enough to bust Unitrax axles though so you need to upgrade even those.

Sorry, about that, honest mistake.
At that time I thought only Hennessey made the Venom spoiler.  Don't know when Auto form started building the fiberglass replicas.  Yours looks exactly the same as my Hennessey one. 
Trade you if you want?

Yes, Larry confirmed that the car had the 255 Walbro pump.  Stock probably never would have supplied enough fuel for a single Nitrous pass.  My Sapphire Walbro pump got a plugged
pre-filter last summer and I replaced it with the one I bought for my Nitrous system.  Recommend you run 2 Walbro.   They're cheap buy two.  Joel has a boost switch turn on his 2 & #3
pumps at boost.  You could do that with a Hobbs switch?  Joel has his A E M module switch them on.  Think he wrote a How To thread?  He used an RSI pump holder.

The fuel pump is accessed from the hatch.  Pull the top carpet back and drill out the rivets to see the fuel tank 'lid'.





Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 06, 2014, 07:54:00 PM
Hey Ted,
No, I don't care one bit about the spoiler to be honest, it made no difference. My only concern was knowing for sure what was in the car before I order parts for my fuel system. If it already had dual 255's, I would hate to order a new set of 255's if you know what I mean.
I'm thinking twin 355's or twin 400's. Waiting to hear back from Sean.

Took the car out for a spin tonight, practiced a few launches (3000 rpm), and shortshifting at 4500 rpm. Pulls hard still (740rwhp), but I don't know if I will run it at the track this Saturday now. It will be too tempting to want to redline it, and the risk of damage is too high at this point to play around...

Looking forward to getting everything sorted, and ready to go. Probably start stocking axles, diffs and a tranny just like I stock parts for out sleds for the Monday after our mountain trips lol.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 06, 2014, 08:30:23 PM
Hey Sheldon if your running 3 walbro's 255 right now.  That's a of 765. That shouldn't even blink for 1000 hp. I think your problem is in your line size and filters , pickups , ect ect.

Triple in tank cleans thing up for sure. But I don't think your problem is in the pump department.
If I did it again I'd go twin 400's. They weren't available when I did my set up. They are also e85 compatible for the e85 guys out their.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 06, 2014, 08:41:14 PM
Hi Joel,
Yes, that's what I requested was twin 400's, but waiting to hear back still.
That along with changing lines as well. I was intending in doing -10 lines, but -8 appears to be as large as guys are using, and the restriction once again will be at the rails. I requested a set of top feed rails and long snout injectors.
Know anyone that might need 69# injectors to fit factory gen 2 manifold?

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 06, 2014, 08:47:52 PM
I don't.

I do have rails.  Not sure if I want to sell them though.
I use to run -8 to twin -6 at the rails with -6 return.

Last year I went -10 to twin -8 to rails with -6 return.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 07, 2014, 08:09:12 AM
-10 would be the way to roll for sure, other than inside diameter of the rails is closer to a -8. At that point, at least the fuel is at the motor, instead of closer to the tank so would still be beneficial.
Buddies Z06 I told you about that he just had built ran a 10.64 with a missed 3rd gear shift, and the next run he rolled through a 10.50 and blew the belt off the blower halfway down the track. Excited to see him get his 9 second pass this Saturday!

I don't.

I do have rails.  Not sure if I want to sell them though.
I use to run -8 to twin -6 at the rails with -6 return.

Last year I went -10 to twin -8 to rails with -6 return.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: jtin on October 07, 2014, 11:56:48 AM
Those are some great times. 

The rails are -8
So single -10 to a Y with with twin -8 is the proper way to go.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 07, 2014, 12:58:38 PM
Your car made 800 who with what it had.  Stock fuel can do 750 because of the S'S and extra twin fuel pumps.  The twin fuel pumps and stock make 60whp easy,
but the fuel pressure goes to 100 psi I was told.  You got A Walbro for the Nitrous (same as the Walbro in my Roe).

When upgrading the lines the pumps need to be done as well.  Single Walbro works up to 750 hp even without dual extra pumps.  Using wrinkle slicks requires more pump
because of the acceleration.  I ran out of fuel once when I upgraded a car to slicks
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 07, 2014, 03:28:30 PM
Hey ted,
Yes, a couple replies up I mentioned that I requested dual 400LPH pumps for in tank. The Paxton junk will be promptly put in the dumpster once those arrive.
I was test-launching on the streets last night around 3000rpm, slipping the clutch to keep wheel spin down, and it was actually coming out of the hole ok. Would love to feel a 5000rpm launch on slicks at the track, but will have to wait for next summer haha

I assume there is a restriction, or plugged filter. My new fuel filter arrived and it was packaged wrong, so I won't be able to try that before I run down the track on Saturday.

It has been tested and proved that a gen 3 style 255LPH pump with a boost-a-pump on it will support 850rwhp. Risky in my opinion. I will built a proper system to handle 1200+ and not have to worry about it. Looking forward to the next dyno run :)

Your car made 800 who with what it had.  Stock fuel can do 750 because of the S'S and extra twin fuel pumps.  The twin fuel pumps and stock make 60whp easy,
but the fuel pressure goes to 100 psi I was told.  You got A Walbro for the Nitrous (same as the Walbro in my Roe).

When upgrading the lines the pumps need to be done as well.  Single Walbro works up to 750 hp even without dual extra pumps.  Using wrinkle slicks requires more pump
because of the acceleration.  I ran out of fuel once when I upgraded a car to slicks
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 08, 2014, 09:15:38 AM
My Roe has 1 Walbro and a MSD BAP.  Top feed injectors and stock e en thing else. 

My TT has triple Walbro and larger braided lines, different filter and Top feed in.   Fuel pressure regarding and Guage at front of engine.
Mt Stealth has BAP and a 3rd injection system.  Plum crazy had 2 (or 4?)  extra injectors   in his Paxton car, built by Dan Lessor.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 11, 2014, 08:23:38 AM
Sheldon
 Good luck at the track this weekend , if I was in town I would have come to watch .
Let us know how you do !
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 11, 2014, 11:27:05 PM
The Vette blew the trans or driveline and Sheldon had some problems but did make a couple of 11.5 sec passes.  He mentioned a 128mph pass before his transmission packed it in.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 12, 2014, 03:54:08 PM
11.50 s first time out , That's great !
 I am sure he will shave a ton of time off with a little tweaking , I would also think that the track prep was not great as track surface temp will be way down at this time of year .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on October 13, 2014, 10:24:43 AM
Sheldon had new MT drag radials and it was at Castrol so I would assume that the track should have been as good as it gets?  Being an event a factor should have been applied?

His problem is the 5000rpm limit and 740rwhp because his fuel system is Walbro in a stock system using Paxton dual pumps and it leans out.  He's ordered new pumps and lines to solve the fuel issue.  He may have the same issue that Joel's 2000 pickup and my 2001 GTS had with our new 'modern' fuel dissolving the fuel guage float (I'm guessing that's what was plugging my in tank filter) and plugging the prefilter.  It can only go faster!

Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 14, 2014, 08:52:49 AM
Hey Darryl,
Thanks for the good luck, I never saw it in time!
We had a blast out there, and I now have full on race fever. I have street raced for 15 years, and never been to a track up until the weekend. So much fun!!!
I am limited to 4500rpm shifts. The car made 740rwhp and 760rwtq at 4500rpm and 5 psi. So that's what I worked with. I accidentally hit 5000rpm the one shift (it comes up fairly quickly).
I am redoing the entire fuel system, and building a trunk mounted, ice box chiller setup for my air to water intercooler. Trying to get my hands on a race BOV as well. They were backordered last I tried to get one (I should be seeing 15 psi, but only getting 5 on the dyno).

At the track, I didn't know where to stop, so I let off at the 1000' mark on each run, and trans wouldn't NOT go into 2nd gear on the one pass that I pulled until the 1320.
Instead of shifting into 4th gear, I would clutch and put it into neutral at the 1000' mark, and coast through to an 11.50 at 128mph the 2 decent runs I made. That and shifting at 4500-4800rpm.
My 4th run, I did a big burnout, and was going to launch hard, and give it a bit more aggressive shifting (let a/f hit 12:1 then shift) and when I got my green light I dumped the clutch and BOOOOM, followed by grinding/banging.
That was going to be a 10 second run for sure....

My racing buddy Harley (other half of "Team Red" haha) did a huge nasty burnout on his first run, staged and set his 2 step launch control at 4500rpm and exploded either his trans or a driveline. The girl was picking up big chunks of aluminum haha.
That's a 700rwhp z06 and it was running 10.42 last Saturday without the no lift WOT box. Very fast, very fun car.

11.50 s first time out , That's great !
 I am sure he will shave a ton of time off with a little tweaking , I would also think that the track prep was not great as track surface temp will be way down at this time of year .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 14, 2014, 06:31:10 PM
11:50 s and coasting last 320 feet !
 You and Jtin may be jostling for quickest street Viper in the west next season , Great work !
 I have a spare low mile tranny if you are looking for one ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 14, 2014, 07:54:20 PM
And 4500rpm shifts lol. Motor should be good for 6500rpm shifts once I get some proper fuel there. And did I mention tuned on 91 octane and only seeing 3psi on my guage?  Race gas tune, 15 psi, and 6500 we should really see some broken parts!
In all honesty though, I'm sure Joel would be getting put into the "heavy hitter" lane at Castrol if he came. Knocking on the 8 second quarter-miles door! They were prepped very well, almost step out of your shoes on the track.

I am about near my limit for spending on the viper for this season, but yes I might be interested in the spare trans closer to spring. What kind of dollars are you needing out of it? Any upgrades done?

I saw a cool picture Greg put on facebook of your guys with your matching gen 2 vipers! Pretty cool!

11:50 s and coasting last 320 feet !
 You and Jtin may be jostling for quickest street Viper in the west next season , Great work !
 I have a spare low mile tranny if you are looking for one ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on October 17, 2014, 08:12:44 PM
You've got a lot more power to use yet , next year should be interesting indeed !
Keep us up to date of your upgrades , and I will be sure to make it out to the track here to see you run in the spring .
How are your engine temps with the Evans coolant after a pass at the track ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: BADACR on October 19, 2014, 07:22:41 PM
Agreed!
Working with RSI on a new fuel system as we speak. Sean Roe doesn't have any stock currently, and recommended talking to Will at rsi. I have heard some of the rumours, but he has been very quick to respond and help so far.

I also spoke to DSS, and their upgrade may be too pricey for me to do, so am looking at an OS Giken rear along with 1500hp axles from RSI. I pressure washed the underside of the car today, so it will be dry and ready to pull the diff out this coming week to assess the damage.

The Evans coolant definitely runs hotter than glycol, which adversely affects my cars performance in town. A couple laps down our main drag, and the car is heat soaked with coolant temps reaching 218 degrees. I take it out on the highway, and it will cool down to 180 and perform like it should.
I had Torrie adjust the tune based on that information, which did help a bit, but it still gets hotter than I would like.
I had a lengthy talk with Jim Heppner on this, and he tells me  the heat is a good thing and I don't want it to run any cooler... but if we can't tune around it and the car runs like crap I need better cooling system to accommodate this.
Joel offered me his used ROE radiator, which I will hopefully be able to buy over the winter along with fuel system, race BOV, rearend etc.

You've got a lot more power to use yet , next year should be interesting indeed !
Keep us up to date of your upgrades , and I will be sure to make it out to the track here to see you run in the spring .
How are your engine temps with the Evans coolant after a pass at the track ?
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on January 24, 2015, 10:42:54 PM
The stock rad is good unless you run the hot climates like Vegas, Arizona Florida or Texas (over 100F).  Joel has his alum rad for sale now at a price that is about half what you'd pay buying direct ...

Gen 3 pump is still 207lph I was told.  Walbro is $130 .  New filter is always a good idea.  When you go to a larger fuel line diameter is when you really need a LOT more pump in your car.  I think I'll need to use 2 Walbros and build a better pump mounting system in my tank for spring.

Something interesting is when I fired up my TT GTS last spring the braided lines were spraying fuel through the braids.  Racing fuel has exotic toxic chemicals and changing out fuel lines ever few years is a good idea.
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: Adrnln on February 26, 2015, 07:24:33 PM
Bad ACR , stock rad is Junk , the reason as I am sure Jim explained that you run hotter with the evans is the heat transfers so much easier to the coolant when compared to any other coolant , a better rad will help you get rid of that heat .
 Will from RSI was very quick to respond to my inquiries on an AEM after Ted recommended him , in fact he called me back after 8 pm when I first inquired and was more than happy to order one for me if he could get my credit card number , after six months of excuses blaming AEM , the post office and George Bush he said it would be in next week , that was 3 years ago and I check the mail every day ,your doesn't return my phone calls very fast ( never ) anymore so Beware of Will from RSI !!!
Better off waiting till someone else has them ,I doubt RSI really does either .
Title: Re: ACR Engine Build
Post by: RTTTTed on May 31, 2015, 09:13:29 AM
Actually Adrln, you'll remember that I recommended that you buy MY DC Perf AEM?  I sold it for $2100 to Sweden after you returned it to me.  It's controlling a 1000whp TT GTS in sweden now.

Sheldon good thing you bought Joel's alum Roe Racing rad.