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The VIPER Garage  |  How To Instructions  |  How-to section  |  DIY Big Brakes Gen1/2
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Author Topic: DIY Big Brakes Gen1/2  (Read 6067 times)
RTTTTed
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2016, 08:00:42 PM »

The first pic shows the mounting ears that need to be cut off of the spindle because that is where the adapter bracket sits.

The second pic shows the re-bent Pre ABS factory rubber brake line that will fit the front calipers on the rear.  The front line is a stock Gen 3 rear line and it is bent correctly for the calipers, but the hardline at the car is metric and the angle is incorrect for a Gen 2

3rd pic is the re-bent brake line of a pre ABS Gen 2 Viper left side and right side has the stock line.  Re-bending until it fits with the brace cut so it fits under the caliper attachment bolt.  The steel line is bent towards the A arm but stays away from the inner wheel and fits nicely.  I cut and welded the brace, however cutting the brace in the middle, bending it to fit under the caliper bolt can also be drilled and bolted if you don't have a welder in your shop.

WARNING:  Do not weld anything on your car unless the Battery has been disconnected (could fry ECU or other electrical components).

The last picture shows the large amount of bending required to fit the factory lines to the new calipers.

I recommend IPSCO replacement fittings and Stainless Steel lines as I did on my Twin Turbo, but they are a little pricey. 







« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 04:23:33 PM by RTTTTed » Logged
1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2016, 08:14:57 PM »

My 2001 project is an ABS car and the ABS system will keep the brakes from locking up.  My TT GTS is a pre- ABS car and will require additional pressure decrease to the rear brakes to prevent the massive 4 piston calipers and large rotors from locking up. 

Summit sells rear proportioning valves for this purpose.  The factory rear proportioning valves have a different design parameter so unlless you're a qualified Engineer the easiest way to prevent non ABS brakes locking up is install a proportioning valve in the single rear brakeline of the car to limit brake pressure to the rear brakes to prevent better rear brakes from locking up the rears. 

The way to adjust a proportioning valve is to use the instructions initial setting, bleed the brakes and then drive down the road, hit the brakes until the front or the rear lock up.  If the rears lock up first, lessen the rear brake pressure until you can lock up the front brakes without locking up the rears.  Locking up the rear tires usually causes the car to lose control and the car to spin.

I have a long gravel driveway and my initial set up was according to the brake reactions on the gravel.  It's much easier on the tires that way
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 04:22:11 PM by RTTTTed » Logged
1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2016, 11:00:31 PM »

I couldn't get the 14.5 x 16 x 28" Hoosier Quick Time Pro slicks to fit on the  hub after I finished the brakes.  I removed the plastic inner tubs because the curves were in the way of the tire.  After the tubs were out of the way the tire and CCW drag pac wheel did bolt on.  Too bad they clamped on the caliper and wouldn't turn  I tried my CCW 17" rims and they did fit and turned without interference.  They also had 1/4" spacers screwed to the inside surface of the center!  I removed the spacer, placed it on the wheel hub and when I bolted the slick back on ... it turned freely and 1/8" clearance could be seen between the wheel and the caliper.

With the wheel hanging free the tire had about .1" clearance to the front frame crossmember.  I slid the jack under the tire and jacked until that side of the car lifted off the block and then checked the clearance.  The tire was not all the way up[ because the sway bar attached to the other side which was hanging free.  There was now 3/4" clearance between tire and frame now.  One part of the frame gussets was sticking 3/4" farther than the firewall and support strut.  I want to chop that off.  I can also see that the fiewall behind the seat will interfere with the tire lifting into the wheelwell so I will massage that with a large hammer to conform to the tire curve.  This is what I'm going to do now.  http://thevipergarage.com/index.php/topic,6032.0.html

The tires are about even with the front part of the quarterpanel.  I expect it will sink into the car tubs if I actually had the car sitting on the ground.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 04:20:31 PM by RTTTTed » Logged
1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2016, 08:16:22 PM »

Wheelwell cutting welding and plastic tub reshaping to fit 31" tires!  http://thevipergarage.com/index.php/topic,6032.0.html


« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 02:23:27 PM by RTTTTed » Logged
1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2016, 09:49:13 PM »

How To on installation of the adjustable proportioning valve.  http://thevipergarage.com/index.php/topic,6086.0.html
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1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2016, 09:34:11 PM »

Gen 2 rear rotors are thinner and have a much smaller friction surface than the front 13" Brembo brakes. 

The brake pads of the stock gen 2 are about 50% the material of the front brakes. 

If unable to upgrade rear brakes on a Gen 2 then the ABS or Tom's 40mm calipers with ceramic pads and lightweight drilled slotted rotors are the best choice.

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1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2017, 06:04:42 PM »

 I copied and pasted this info from MotoIQ written by a Grand Prix Racer      "BRAKING

The Viper’s braking performance is horrible and it has always been a shortcoming of the car in every magazine competition.  The main issue here is not a lack of stopping power since the Viper’s 38/42mm 4-piston Brembo front calipers are larger than the Brembo “Lotus” (Esprit V8) and 2000 Mustang Cobra R front calipers and the 13 x 1.25” front rotors are quite large for the day.  The problem is that due to the lack of ABS, Chrysler built in so much front brake bias in attempt to make the Viper “Safer” under braking so it will never spin out.

The use of a 36mm single-piston Lotus Esprit rear caliper (which is the same as the rear Elise caliper) on a 13 x 0.87” is not powerful enough to make the rear 345 tires contribute very much to of the deceleration of the car, thus making the front tires do all the work.  Increasing the rear brake bias will greatly improve the stopping ability of the car, but we will cover that in a future article.

*The ABS-equipped 2001 & 2002 Gen-2 Vipers had a larger 43mm rear caliper which reduced the 60-0 braking test from 122-155 feet (depending on the driver’s ability) down to a consistent and competitive 110-115 feet.  The 2003+ Gen 3 cars were able to shorten that distance down to 97 feet.

During our test, the stock 18 year old pads did not hold up very well to track use.  After a couple hard braking zones, we still had good pedal stiffness but the car would not stop.  We are unsure of the age of our brake fluid but due to our pedal not dropping to the floor, we glazed the stock pads before we boiled the fluid.  We will be changing out the pads and fluid and be sure to re test.


Before fading the brakes, we were able to produce a spike of 0.96 Gs of braking before locking up the front tires.  You can see a drop in longitudinal Gs in attempt to unlock the tire before the deceleration stabilized around 0.8 Gs.  For comparison the McLaren 12C could brake consistently at 1.0 to 1.2 Gs.

“If the Viper GTS hadn’t been dead last in braking performance, it would’ve thoroughly spanked its opposition at the road course… sticky tires gave the Dodge race-car-level grip but the ABS-less Viper had devilish tendency to lock its fronts under heavy braking, raising the Dodge’s lap time by a few tenths.” – MotorTrend 5/1997"





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1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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