The VIPER Garage
User Info
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 19, 2018, 08:53:16 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
News
Welcome to the updated Viper Garage.  We look forward to exchanging stories, events, tech info, pictures and fun.  Welcome to our humble Viper Home
Pick Your ViperGarage Theme
Forum Stats
24611 Posts in 1933 Topics by 817 Members
Latest Member: arnytt
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
The VIPER Garage  |  Vendor Area  |  M&M Performance  |  Anyone on here have thes on a Gen 2?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Anyone on here have thes on a Gen 2?  (Read 21088 times)
CaptnCrash
Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 119

« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 06:11:34 AM »

So, It would be more cost effective and better performance to just buy the M&M's and get them coated?

What does coating cost?

When I got mine the M&M's came coated with cermachrome which is okay, but they will give you a discount for uncoated. If you want to do JetHot instead, just call JetHot and set up an account and get your account ID number.  JetHot will give you an estimate when you set up the account and tell them what the headers are for.  Give that ID to M&M and have them ship you the misc stuff and the headers direct to JetHot and make sure they label your headers with the ID.  They know the drill.

http://www.jet-hot.com/coatings/jet-hot-extreme-1300/

Either way they are still more cost effective, and the performance is good.

--CC
Logged
Steve 00RT/10
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 434


« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 08:23:40 AM »

  What about corrosion? I assume you got yours coated with something? I don't want ones that will rust in a few years.

Vipers and rust equals somewhat of an oxymoron.  Pretty much not going to happen.  Nothing gets much more pampered than most Vipers. 

We have over 11 years and 100,000 miles on our jet hot coated Belanger headers.  Never have had an issue.  The Belanger 3” exhaust is just regular aluminized tubing.  No issues there either and we’ve actually been on salty roads several times over the years.  SS also causes adjacent parts to get more brittle and /or melt due to the added heat.  I see no good reason for SS headers.  Actually T304 SS is not even really a good grade of stainless.  It has a fair amount of iron content which can actually contribute to brittleness / cracking over time.

Steve
Logged
Sybil TF
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 905


« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2012, 08:57:09 AM »

Thanks for the info guys!! :2thumbsup:
Logged
You know who!
RTTTTed
Owner
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7719


Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2012, 12:52:50 PM »

The Belangers I had were Jet Hot coated on inside and outside.  They went from shiny (new) to grey (after breakin).   The TNT 5 into 1 headers I kept on my GTS have a Black coating and look like new after 11 years.
Logged
1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
Sybil TF
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 905


« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012, 04:01:47 AM »

The Belangers I had were Jet Hot coated on inside and outside.  They went from shiny (new) to grey (after breakin).   The TNT 5 into 1 headers I kept on my GTS have a Black coating and look like new after 11 years.

Has anyone done a comparison of them all to see which one gives the most added hp/tq or are the all pretty much the same?

I don't want ones that leak. Which one is the best for sealing?

I guess the thing that caught my eye is that these, M&M are designed by guys who own Vipers.

Logged
You know who!
Steve 00RT/10
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 434


« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2012, 08:08:02 AM »

Has anyone done a comparison of them all to see which one gives the most added hp/tq or are the all pretty much the same?

I don't want ones that leak. Which one is the best for sealing?

I guess the thing that caught my eye is that these, M&M are designed by guys who own Vipers.

Numbers are easy to bandy about. Belangers on 96-99 GEN IIs were in the 40-50HP range.  00-02 around 30.  Mine was around 30.  They are a 5/3/1 stepped header.  Some say that for turbo or blown applications, the pickle restricts flow.  I'm no expert, but our 5 pound Roe cars are putting out big power for 5 pounders  593RWHP/636RWTQ.  That's a good 40 HP over average. Maybe it applies for bigger blowers, but if stock or mildly blown...shouldn't be a problem at all.  .....and then there is the Belanger rumble  :2thumbsup:

Mine turned a grayish color too...although it took over a year.   No problem for me.  I know nothing about M&M headers….likely a fine product.  We were one of the very early 00-02 cars to get Belangers back in 4/01.  The fit was perfect.  They have never leaked.  I think I tightened a couple nuts a ¼ to a 1/3 turn when we hit about 30,000 miles on them.  We also have Belangers/hi flow cats/3” Corsa track exhaust on the bumblebee 01 ACR.  Never anissue there either.

The Belanger family has been making performance exhaust for muscle cars / drag racing since the mid 50s I believe.  They are in Phoenix.

Steve
Logged
Sybil TF
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 905


« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2012, 02:07:36 PM »

40 t0 50 hp by just switching to headers? Does that include a tune with that?

I guess I will just have to flip a coin between the Belangers and the M&Ms.
Logged
You know who!
CaptnCrash
Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 119

« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2012, 02:52:42 PM »

40 t0 50 hp by just switching to headers? Does that include a tune with that?

I guess I will just have to flip a coin between the Belangers and the M&Ms.

I already had a tune, albeit not a very good one, and all I did was add the M&M's and my GenIII went pretty close to 38hp/30tq +- over 3 runs on the dyno with no other changes to the engine or the driveline. On the same dyno as the previous runs and at fairly close ambient conditions.  That was in 90'F heat.  I had the headers built without the pickle.

--CC
Logged
Steve 00RT/10
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 434


« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2012, 04:22:56 PM »

40 t0 50 hp by just switching to headers? Does that include a tune with that?

I guess I will just have to flip a coin between the Belangers and the M&Ms.

That was a pretty standard power increase for the 96-99s.  No tune.
Logged
Steve 00RT/10
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 434


« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2012, 04:24:30 PM »

I already had a tune, albeit not a very good one, and all I did was add the M&M's and my GenIII went pretty close to 38hp/30tq +- over 3 runs on the dyno with no other changes to the engine or the driveline. On the same dyno as the previous runs and at fairly close ambient conditions.  That was in 90'F heat.  I had the headers built without the pickle.

--CC

You can't compare a GEN III to a GEN II.  Apples and oranges
Logged
Sybil TF
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 905


« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2012, 10:14:50 PM »

You can't compare a GEN III to a GEN II.  Apples and oranges

Totally different on how they react to upgrades?

What is a pickle? And do I need it? Oh brother that did not sound good.
Logged
You know who!
KNG SNKE
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 625


« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2012, 05:08:35 AM »

These are hands down the best headers for the Gen 2 both price and performance.  No issues with them, no corrosion, nothing!  I have been running them for years.
They are the same design as belangers without the pickle.
Logged
CaptnCrash
Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 119

« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2012, 08:01:39 AM »

Totally different on how they react to upgrades?

What is a pickle? And do I need it? Oh brother that did not sound good.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:  The "pickle" aka velocity spike is a pickle/spike shaped hunk of metal placed inside the header collector between the tubes that allegedly increases the exhaust velocity [hence scavenging effect] by reducing pulse back pressure/interference.  I've gotten better performance on every engine / header combination I've ever tried this on by not having it.  I understand the theory but I've never had it work for me.

Yes you can compare a GenIII and GenII in this area.  I would realistically expect similar gains of ~ 35-40hp/tq

M&M will make them either way, just tell them what you want.

--CC
Logged
Steve 00RT/10
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 434


« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2012, 10:07:15 AM »

:lol: :lol: :lol:  The "pickle" aka velocity spike is a pickle/spike shaped hunk of metal placed inside the header collector between the tubes that allegedly increases the exhaust velocity [hence scavenging effect] by reducing pulse back pressure/interference.  I've gotten better performance on every engine / header combination I've ever tried this on by not having it.  I understand the theory but I've never had it work for me.

Yes you can compare a GenIII and GenII in this area.  I would realistically expect similar gains of ~ 35-40hp/tq

M&M will make them either way, just tell them what you want.

--CC


Not sure how you can state that?  But I’m always ready to learn.  I will say with authority that it’s not true for all GEN IIs.  96-99 cars will produce a higher result than 00-02 cars.  That’s a fact. 

Do you have side by side dyno proof for what you’re saying.  The GEN II & III engines are different engines.  I don’t see how the results can be similar

As ‘the pickle’ helped our car produce about 50 more RWHP than average with our 5 pound blower…it seems hard to believe we could get more without it.  5,10,15 HP….pretty much bench racing….it’s nothing you’re going to notice as far as SOTP. 

If you're debating between the M&Ms and Belangers and the M&Ms are a good fit and cheaper…..go for it.  ...but I would do it based on cost and fit....not the pickle business.  The Belanger's have over 50 years in the business.  I have to think they have some chops in the area of exhaust

Steve


Logged
Sybil TF
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 905


« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2012, 07:07:59 AM »

These are hands down the best headers for the Gen 2 both price and performance.  No issues with them, no corrosion, nothing!  I have been running them for years.
They are the same design as belangers without the pickle.

Have you ever had your car checked on a dyno to see what it makes? I have seen a few with the Belanger's I guess with the pickle. I would be curious to see with these M&M,s without the pickle :)

Thanks guys, it is fascinating hearing all the opinions on the performance enhancements. I won't hold my breath for any of those TV weekend shows my husband watches to do a Viper enhancement. You guys should notify one to get a Viper on there.
Logged
You know who!
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
 

SMF 2.0.2 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines | Theme by nesianstyles | Buttons by Andrea