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The VIPER Garage  |  Generation-specific Viper Forums  |  RT/10 & GTS Viper Discussions  |  Superchargers - both of them
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Author Topic: Superchargers - both of them  (Read 3378 times)
RTTTTed
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Viper Nation - ezine
« on: October 20, 2010, 05:20:32 PM »

Advantages of the Roe Racing Twin Screw supercharger makes so much torque so early (2,000rpm) that it's like having full throttle always.  Rpm doesn't seem to make much power difference.  It starts with huge torque and then huge hp takes over.  The Twin Screw supercharger is like teh car with a 10L engine.  Even the small kit has serious traction issues.  The Vec is easy to tune the engine's parameters for all modifications.  The Roe looks very impressive sitting on top of the engine, especially the polished Roe. 

Advantages of the Paxton centrifugal supercharger are that it doesn't start making power until the rpms go high and therefor makes it easy to drive and with the big torque and big power only at higher rpms the traction isn't much of any issue.  This type of power is easily controlled and it doesn't need a race car driver to be able to drive the car with a base kit.  The design of the Paxton uses auxilary dual fuel pumps and a Fuel Management Unit/FMU to control mixture and add fuel according to boost.  The timing is controlled by a Split Second sub computer.  The Paxton runs as perfect as stock since it really doesn't affect anything until the rpms go up. 

Disadvantages of the Roe are that it seems to often have a slight hesitation when easing into the throttle from the cruise/coast position.  The Roe does not have California emissions certification.

Disadvantages of the Paxton are that it doesn't increase available power all the time.

Ted


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1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2010, 06:25:02 PM »

Hey Ted, only thing you need now is a Twin Turbo to complete the "hat-trick".  ;D  ;D  ;D :D
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2010, 08:51:50 PM »

I was talking to Sean (Roe Racing) and he suggested the same thing.  Tim/Bottlefed and I looked hard at the 2.8L blower that Sean had at his display in VOI 11 and we're both expecting to be running the 2.8L next year.

If I had a TT, I would try out the 1000rwhp and stuff breaks at those levels.  Since I mostly just cruise the highway with my cars they work excellent as they are.  Both cars are super reliable and breakage not expected.  My wife prefers the Paxton ACR because it runs very smooth and is much quieter than my Roe GTS.





Both cars show very well and since both cars are equipped with Corsa exhaust they sound similar, except the 708 cam and 1.7 RRs in the GTS make the engine idle extremely rough.

Ted

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1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
Steve 00RT/10
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2010, 10:50:54 AM »

Advantages of the Roe Racing Twin Screw supercharger makes so much torque so early (2,000rpm) that it's like having full throttle always.  Rpm doesn't seem to make much power difference.  It starts with huge torque and then huge hp takes over.  The Twin Screw supercharger is like teh car with a 10L engine.  Even the small kit has serious traction issues.  The Vec is easy to tune the engine's parameters for all modifications.  The Roe looks very impressive sitting on top of the engine, especially the polished Roe. 

Advantages of the Paxton centrifugal supercharger are that it doesn't start making power until the rpms go high and therefor makes it easy to drive and with the big torque and big power only at higher rpms the traction isn't much of any issue.  This type of power is easily controlled and it doesn't need a race car driver to be able to drive the car with a base kit.  The design of the Paxton uses auxilary dual fuel pumps and a Fuel Management Unit/FMU to control mixture and add fuel according to boost.  The timing is controlled by a Split Second sub computer.  The Paxton runs as perfect as stock since it really doesn't affect anything until the rpms go up. 

Disadvantages of the Roe are that it seems to often have a slight hesitation when easing into the throttle from the cruise/coast position.  The Roe does not have California emissions certification.

Disadvantages of the Paxton are that it doesn't increase available power all the time.

Ted




Good description of each Ted.  I think every car may behave a little differently.  I am not aware of any hesitation in our cars.  Power seems to happen immediately!

I could be wrong, but I think the Roe install for a novice DIYer (me) is easier than the Paxton. I know several years ago, this was the case.....especially for getting it dialed in right.

I also remember Sean telling me that the stock valve train springs on a GEN II Viper don't like high RPMs all the time...which is where the Paxton makes its big power.  I seldom go over 5500 RPM with the Roe.  ....With a light flywheel and 3.45s in the RT/10....that is sometimes hard to catch in 1st and 2nd. You are there almost immediately. :)

Steve
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2010, 11:57:11 AM »

The minscule hesitation is more common on the 10psi cars and not expereinced on the 5 and even the 8psi cars.  It is also only during extremely light throttle applications, not light to full throttle.  I was told that all it takes to get rid of that minscule hesitation is an SCT adjustment and I'm not sure that most people would notice it.  The hesitation is nothing like the drive by wire and I don't notice it much, but being a perfectionist I bought an AEM.  Since I want to upgrade to the 2.8L blower I'll get tuning after that.  I bought BAZ's AEM and got the wideband guage with it.  I just havn't decided that it will go into my car for certain.  The Vec 2/3 is easy to tune and I'm comfortable with adjsuting the tune.  It seems that the AEM is superior to the stock ECU and the VEC, but not by much?  I'll wait until I get the 2.8L blower installed on my car.  I tune the Vec myself and then I'll decide to either sell the AEM or instal it.

Thanks for the extra info Steve.  I forgot to mention that I shift my roe car about 5200 and the Paxton at 6,000.

Ted
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 12:02:46 PM by RTTTTed » Logged
1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2010, 12:56:13 PM »

the roe install is easier than the stock paxton, and MUCH easier than a tuner paxton kit

tuning should be much easier on a stock paxton kit though. its plug and play basically. no actual tuning.
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2010, 01:14:00 PM »

Thanks Phil and Steve, you guys are correct

My Paxton ACR was built by Macedo Motorsports in Florida.  Many tuners mount the fuel pumps on the driver's foot box, in view when you open the hood.  Unfortunately, the Paxton fuel pumps are not attractive to look at.  Larry Macedo mounted the fuel pumps and the FMU inside the transmission tunnel with the Snow water/meth injection system and they can't be seen.  The spilt second box and the control box for the w/m inj. are mounted on the footwell for easy acess (laptop hookup).  



I prefer the pumps, fmu and w/m pump mounted out of sight.  I don't see that the heat would be any different than the temp above the footwell inside the engine compartment.



Larry used the factory Windshield washer bottle as the methanol tank.  Winter windshield washer is about 78% alcohol anyway.  Summer is 50%



The windshield washer tank came filled with Methanol.

  
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 01:17:47 PM by RTTTTed » Logged
1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2010, 01:43:00 PM »

nice clean install.

IMO, if you wanna run more than the OEM paxton pulley/boost, a real fuel system is a MUST. that FMU setup is pretty nice for 7psi and easy to install, but more than that an upgrade is needed

same goes for the roe, more than 6.5psi, a real fuel system is needed, i dont like that BAP setup personally.
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2010, 02:27:36 PM »

Both of my cars have the Walbro fuel pump in the tank.  Larry has had much luck with these pumps and I understand that they are manufactured by the same company that builds the factory 205L fuel pumps.  The Walbro was added to the ACR for the Nitrous System support.  802rwhp.  Larry Macedo did drill and interconnect the two fuel galleries in the intake manifold.

My GTS has a Walbro fuel pump inside the tank with a BAP mounted with Velcro beside the Vec2/3 and the injector drivers box.  During a Viper event outside of Vancouver I heard a pop and my car crapped and then shutdown, coasting to the side of the highway.  Fuse holder (and fuse) melted and that was the power supply for the BAP.  No power to the BAP = no fuel to the engine.  I cut away the fuse holder, inserted a non-essentail fuse (15 amps) and drove the car until I got home.  Too much boost and the fuse would melt again.  I did finally figure out that the correct fuse (that was melted) was a 30 amp and have had no problems since.  My GTS makes over 700rwhp.

I agree that a thousand bucks worth of fuel system would probably be more reliable.

My Roe car ...



My Paxton ACR ...




« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 02:32:01 PM by RTTTTed » Logged
1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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