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The VIPER Garage  |  Generation-specific Viper Forums  |  RT/10 & GTS Viper Discussions  |  Project: Bullet-proof V-10
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Author Topic: Project: Bullet-proof V-10  (Read 6989 times)
BOTTLEFED
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« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2010, 05:33:44 PM »

69. Carefully slide all the pistons out and lay them out for inspection. Make sure you label them if you are reusing them and be sure you get all the bearings off the crankshaft and back in their respective caps.



70. With all the pistons/rods out, you can remove the crankshaft main bearing caps. Follow the FSM for the proper sequence to loosen the caps. These are four bolt mains and this is a very long crank, so it is critical to loosen it properly to avoid warping the shaft. With the main caps removed, remove the six rear main seal plate bolts and finally the plate.



71. This crankshaft is 85lbs. so you may want a friend to help you lift it out.

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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2010, 05:39:22 PM »

Well, I finally got my parts back from the machine shop about a month later.
I had the crank competition balanced, meaning every rotating part, including flywheel, clutch, crank, pistons, rods, front dampener and pulley. I also had the crank journals polished.

In the meantime, here are a few things I did...

TRACTION!! finally...
[e]18[/e]

Bought these Nitto drag radials off a member on the VCA with only a few miles on them.

Bought a Walbro fuel pump and pulled out my module for modifying (see other thread on fuel possible fuel syst. upgrade).

Wiring in my solenoids and switches for the nitrous system.

Cleaned engine bay really, really good.

Radiator cleaned and back-flowed.
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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2010, 05:41:41 PM »

This question was asked in the write-up:
[Originally Posted by Camfab
Great write up, but on step "60" just to clarify, the large head bolts should not be re-used. The bolts are of a yield to torque variety. You probably know that, but I thought I would just put it out there for others that don't.]


I will mention that in the write-up. That is what the manual recommends, but it is highly debatable that they should be replaced every time. There was a thread on this very topic over on VA that dispels that myth. I have reused them before with no ill-effects.
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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2010, 05:47:46 PM »

The rest of the thread will just be FYI on the things I'm doing during the project.  It is info on engine building and additional things that can be done in the assembly.

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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2010, 05:53:30 PM »

Another part of the process was honing the cylinders and preparing the block. I pulled the block on the stand outside for cleaning.



I used a flex hone to deglaze the cylinders and put a nice cross-hatch back in the bores. I use a generous amount of WD-40 with the drill at about half speed, and work my way in and out at about a 1sec. pace to get that 60° X pattern.



BEFORE


AFTER
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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2010, 05:56:54 PM »

Once I honed all the cylinders, there was a lot of harmful debris in the block that needed to be cleaned out. I started by soaking the block with engine degreaser and scrubbing it really good and rinsing it out with a power washer.

I scrubbed the crankshaft area well with hot soapy water to get all the honing debris out. Then rinsed well.



Then I went to work on the cylinder bores themselves. I got a nice clean hot soapy solution and a wheel brush and started scrubbing the bores.



I scrubbed and rinsed until I could wipe a clean, white microfiber in each one and get a perfectly clean swipe.



Immediately following this I used a rag soaked in WD-40 to wipe the bores down to keep them from rusting. It happens FAST. By the time I dried the bores and checked them for cleanliness, they were already starting to rust, which made it difficult to get a clean swipe.
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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2010, 06:00:53 PM »

I bought my piston rings and bearings from a well-known race shop called Ackerly and Childs (previously Childs and Albert). I would recommend them for rings, but you can get the exact same bearing set cheaper on ebay.



I went with the Hellfire rings on recommendation from JD. The race shop also recommended them for my application.
I gaped them big since I wasn't using a torque plate. I was told by many that .030-.035 was where I wanted to be on the top rings. But there was conflicting opinions on the second ring gap. Most the of the old school guys said smaller gap (.024-.026). I did a bunch of research and the newest method is to gap the second rings bigger than the top rings. I went with .033 on top and .037 on second (the pic shows .030 because that is what I was initially told by my machinist for the tops).


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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2010, 06:05:32 PM »

Next, I soaked the crank in solvent overnight to clean out the machining dust. I washed it with soap and water and wiped it down with WD-40.

I assembled the pistons on the rods.

Then I installed the crank with new bearings and torqued the main caps to spec.

I carefully installed the pistons with the new bearings, and installed the timing chain and cam sprocket to proper time.


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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2010, 06:53:34 PM »

"Old school" - we used to de-beam and draw file our connecting rods then get them double shot peened, resized and then rebalance the engine.  Not all that expensive in the "old days" but horrendous costs nowadays.  The de-beaming proceedure would removed quite a bit of extra (useless) material and lighten the rods while removing stress risers.  Casting and forging processes are a much finer finish now however.
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1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2010, 10:08:53 PM »

haha
I had the rods on the first motor I built shot peened.  I had no idea what it meant, but it sounded good!

There are some new techniques now.  But because of better manufacturing processes and tighter tolerances, a lot of the old tricks don't apply anymore.
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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2010, 10:35:46 PM »

I think that all the reasoning is still good, it's just not cost feasable any longer.

The rods would get clamped in a vise and the casting flash and beam ridge would be ground, filed, sanded and finally polished.  the metal removal action always longitudal so that teh molecules in the metal's surfacar are all aligned with the length of the rod, not crosswise.  Then metal balls are shot (similar to sandblasting) at the rod to compact the surface material.  With the  extra weight removed the reciprocating assy is lightened.  The flattening and removal of stress risers from the sides of the rods means that cracks have no prestressed starting point.

Reworking the rods this way strengthens the rod material and reduces stress on the crank and allows higher rpms because of the lighter weight.  While grinding and filing the rods the small end and big ends are balanced separately further improving the 'blueprint" of the engine dynamics.

But with the cost of resizing both the rod ends and then rebalancing the engine is very high nowadays whereas the old days the shotpeening, resizing and crank balance would be about $500. 

Ted
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1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2010, 05:10:09 PM »

A few more updates.  I haven't done much in the last few weeks with working on the site and VOI taking priority recently.

I wanted to calculate the compression ratio, quench clearance, and check for range of motion problems.  Since I didn't get any specs on the pistons and rods when I bought them, I didn't know exactly what to expect for the compression ratio, other than the seller told me they were designed for a FI build.

I did these checks myself, and want to share with you guys the procedure, however, it is best if you leave it to a professional engine builder to make them.  In fact I had my calculations and measurements verified by my machinist.  I'll show you how to calculate these for reference and so you'll understand what your engine builder it talking about.  Knowing this stuff will also help you design the parts you will need for your own engine build.  There may be some other measurements you need to make on your build.   If you feel comfortable with doing these, then go for it :)

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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2010, 05:30:55 PM »

The first thing was to turn the engine stand so that one bank of the block is level.  I chose to work with cylinder #1, but that is not critical at all.

This will be for measuring piston deck height and quench clearance.  
I used a dial indicator to find exact top dead center (TDC).  I brought the piston up slowly until the dial stopped moving, but before the piston started moving back down.  The numbers on the dial are unimportant for this.



Once I got the piston at exact TDC, I laid a straight-edge across the block deck. I used a feeler gauge under the edge to measure the clearance.  I kept pressure on the straight-edge as I slid the gauge under to prevent lifting it and getting a false reading.  This measurement is the piston deck height.  Along with the head gasket thickness, I got my quench clearance.
As you can see from my pic, I have .005" for deck height.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 05:37:23 PM by BOTTLEFED » Logged
97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2010, 06:01:30 PM »

Next I moved on to a cylinder head.  

I have JM stage3 heads, so your head will probably look a little different.  JM states on their site that the stage3 head comes standard with a 75cc combustion chamber volume.  I didn't know if my heads were custom ported over what JM usually does with the stage3, so I decided to go ahead and measure the cylinder head combustion chamber volume, commonly known as head cc.

To do this, I first cleaned the carbon out of one of the chambers in the head (cylinder #1 since that was the cylinder I worked on in the block).  I used some carb cleaner and a scotchbrite.



These are the things I used to measure the volume.  I also measured the piston dish volume as well.
Cut a piece of plexi-glass to fit over the chamber.  Not too thin so it doesn't flex.  Drill a 1/4" hole in it.
A syringe with cc measurement.
A light oil.  I used vegetable oil because it's cheap and the lightest oil I had.
Light grease to seal the plexi-glass to the surface.  I use vaseline.



The head needs to be head cc side up and as level as possible.  The oil needs to fill the head cc without leaking out. 
I coated the edge of the cylinder head chamber with the vaseline. 
I placed the plexi-glass on the head and pressed down to seal it to the head with the vaseline.
I used the syringe to measure out 10cc of oil at a time to fill the head cc through the hole in the plexi-glass.  I kept track of exactly how much I put in.  This is the head cc measurement.  I also cc'd the piston dish, which is part of the total cylinder volume, and used to calculate compression ratio.
The head cc measured 75cc (just like the JM site says).  I took the head to my machinist and he verified this measurement as well. 
The piston dish cc came out to be 8cc.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 06:18:31 PM by BOTTLEFED » Logged
97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2010, 10:36:15 PM »

Now to use those measurements to calculate the compression ratio.

engine displacement (use metric measurements):
BORE X BORE X STROKE X .0031416 = DISPLACEMENT
101.6 X 101.6 X 98.6 X .0031416 = 3197.5
This is for the stock bore (4") and stroke (3.88") of the 8.0L engine.  These specs are from the FSM.

swept volume of a single cylinder:
DISPLACEMENT / 4 = SWEPT VOLUME
3197.5 / 4 = 800cc

quench clearance:
DECK HEIGHT + HEAD GASKET THICKNESS (compressed) = QUENCH
.005 + .054 = .059"
The compressed head gasket thickness was taken from the FSM. 
*note that this measurement is in inches compared to the others that are in millimeters*

total deck volume of a single cylinder:
BORE X BORE X QUENCH X .01996 + PISTON DISH CC = DECK VOLUME
101.6 X 101.6 X .059 X  .01996 + 8 = 20.156cc

compression ratio:
SWEPT VOLUME + DECK VOLUME + HEAD VOLUME /divided by/ DECK VOLUME + HEAD VOLUME
800 + 20.156 + 75      895.156         
    20.156 + 75       =    95.156      =  9.40:1 CR

I posted the complete equation so you can see how this formula works.  The easiest way to do it though is just to input your numbers into a calculator like this one>
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/compstaticcalc.html
Try it out for yourself by entering my measurements into their calculator.

9.4:1 is not much lower than stock, which is 9.6:1.  I'm thinking the piston/rod combo I have are setup for the stock compression, and my JM heads are giving me the lower CR.  Therefore, since I had these heads before, my CR is not changing from what I was already running, but at least its lower than stock.  Since I don't plan to go TT anytime soon, the lower boost (10psi) of the Roe will be just fine.  I never planned to run the nitrous much, but this CR will limit my HP shot, and I will probably have to run race fuel when spraying.
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97GTS B&W: Roe S/C 6.5#, VEC3, custom W/M, Borla headers and catless exhaust, smooth tubes and K&Ns, JM stg3 heads, 1.7 Arrow RR, 3.55 gears, Fidanza, B&M sst, 661hp/683tq
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