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The VIPER Garage  |  VCA topics  |  Viper Owners Association  |  Viper Owners Association FAQ’S - Sept 18, 2013
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Author Topic: Viper Owners Association FAQ’S - Sept 18, 2013  (Read 11653 times)
shooter_t1
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2013, 06:21:28 PM »

Sorry for the delay.  Got sick last night, had the day off today and decided to stain my deck.  I hurt my right arm and my fingers are numb.  I'm a mess....

Now to your question....  As far as belonging to your local club, I guess that would be up to them.  I'm sure some may be gun shy with a new club.

I prefer to have a national club as it brings everyone under one umbrella so to speak. 

1. website
2. membership
3. magazine
4. insurance
5. VOI or national meets
6. Most important - relationship with the manufacturer.

Chrysler or any major manufacturer cannot have a relationship with each individual region.  Too much for them to worry about.  BUT if an association has a unified voice with the manufacturer, then the relationship with the regions has a better chance of coming together.

The VOA will be as the VCA was set up 20 years ago.  The National Association serves the regions, not the other way around. The current VCA has turned the tables so that the regions are subservient to national.  The VOA will not be that way.     
 

Here's what I was thinking.

I am all for a National entity, but after this last round of BS, why not have it the other way. Have the regions collect the dues, then pass nationals portion along to them via direct deposit.
This way, we don't have ANY chance of the National entity holding the regional clubs hostage. An example of this could be, say for instance, ole shooter asks questions that make the National officers upset.
They ban him, then turn around and tell his region; "don't let this guy hang out with his fellow Viper owners or we will not give you the regional portion of dues". Not good.

And also, this way, the Regions can have the associate member level along the lines of what a lot of former and present members are interested in. Don't want to belong to the National club, but still wanna hang with your buddies.? Fine, here's our reduced level membership option. Of course, your not entitled to the Mag subscription, and you have to pay extra to certain attend events, but you are still part of the family.


And how far do you think the National officers and BOD would have gone in our recent round of BS if the Regions were in control of the flow of money and could have said.."hey, make changes the members want, make them now".
This, along with intelligent by-laws, put's the power back where it belongs...with the regions.

Robert
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 06:25:25 PM by shooter_t1 » Logged
daytonprowler
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2013, 06:36:34 PM »

:headscratch:  what's a Lambda?  Thought that was a Greek letter that colleges used to name their student frats?   :idk:

Lambda Car Club Internationl is a car club for LGBT people.  Founded back in 1984 by an editor of Hemmings Motor News.
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daytonprowler
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2013, 07:05:46 PM »

Here's what I was thinking.

I am all for a National entity, but after this last round of BS, why not have it the other way. Have the regions collect the dues, then pass nationals portion along to them via direct deposit.
This way, we don't have ANY chance of the National entity holding the regional clubs hostage. An example of this could be, say for instance, ole shooter asks questions that make the National officers upset.
They ban him, then turn around and tell his region; "don't let this guy hang out with his fellow Viper owners or we will not give you the regional portion of dues". Not good.

And also, this way, the Regions can have the associate member level along the lines of what a lot of former and present members are interested in. Don't want to belong to the National club, but still wanna hang with your buddies.? Fine, here's our reduced level membership option. Of course, your not entitled to the Mag subscription, and you have to pay extra to certain attend events, but you are still part of the family.


And how far do you think the National officers and BOD would have gone in our recent round of BS if the Regions were in control of the flow of money and could have said.."hey, make changes the members want, make them now".
This, along with intelligent by-laws, put's the power back where it belongs...with the regions.

Robert

Good points Robert.  As far as National collecting the dues.... it does make it easier on the regions for the national organization to take the membership payments, do the paperwork for the membership, giving the regions the website access for membership, etc.

The monthly direct deposit I would like to implement would force the national club to work within its budget. No more holding the regions membership dues because national needs money to pay for this or that. The VCA robbing Peter to pay Paul is bull shit.

You mention the senario of someone getting banned then national says they can't go to regional event.  Well, all I can tell you with my experience being banned is that my Ohio members pretty much told national to go f*** themselves.  I'm welcome at anything the Ohio Viper Club does. Im sure you have no problems going to your Texas Region events. Heck, I'm one of the main guys that puts things together in the Ohio Region. LOL The Ohio Viper Club members voted to go with the new VOA starting Jan 1, 2014.

I don't see the same garbage happening with the VOA as happened with the VCA.

All I ask is for people to give the VOA a chance, I think you will be impressed with what you see. Just give us a chance.
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2013, 07:24:44 PM »

You're right and I agree that it would have been more difficult to pay wife and himself as much as Chris wanted to - sorry, as he did.

But I remember paying the VCA membership dues when I went to the first event of the year to the regional membership director.  It would be so much easier to do the payment locally, especially if there is a Canadian Club that needs to pay US dollars to national, Swedish, UK pounds, euros etc.

I'm not worried about the organization.  The founders that started the old VCA are starting a new Viper Club so it'll be similar to the old one, except better since this is the second time around.  I haven't heard from JonB but I presume that he is also involved in starting this club as well?

I was not impressed when National VCA said that the members they banned were not allowed to attend with their friends and some regions enforced this - it is still up to regional presidents to decide what is reasonable and what is not.
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shooter_t1
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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2013, 08:05:56 PM »

Good points Robert.  As far as National collecting the dues.... it does make it easier on the regions for the national organization to take the membership payments, do the paperwork for the membership, giving the regions the website access for membership, etc.

The monthly direct deposit I would like to implement would force the national club to work within its budget. No more holding the regions membership dues because national needs money to pay for this or that. The VCA robbing Peter to pay Paul is bull shit.

You mention the senario of someone getting banned then national says they can't go to regional event.  Well, all I can tell you with my experience being banned is that my Ohio members pretty much told national to go f*** themselves.  I'm welcome at anything the Ohio Viper Club does. Im sure you have no problems going to your Texas Region events. Heck, I'm one of the main guys that puts things together in the Ohio Region. LOL The Ohio Viper Club members voted to go with the new VOA starting Jan 1, 2014.

I don't see the same garbage happening with the VOA as happened with the VCA.

All I ask is for people to give the VOA a chance, I think you will be impressed with what you see. Just give us a chance.

I appreciate the answers.
After I was banned, I didn't attend the local events as I didn't want to give the Marshall's any excuse to withhold funds from the Houston region. Your's is a different situation as you are/were the region President.

As I told Janni in a post about a week ago...you have my vote and support for a new club.
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2013, 10:04:41 PM »

Have you read the latest VCA BS about not moderating any longer?  LOL and the reasonit was posted on the President moderated thread is because he is still moderated.  Nothing like BSing while proving that you're full of SH*T? 
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Steve 00RT/10
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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2013, 05:32:13 AM »

I don't know to multi quote here, but this post is in response to Randal's above posts.  Thanks for attempting to answer my question Randal. 

Sorry for the delay.  Got sick last night, had the day off today and decided to stain my deck.  I hurt my right arm and my fingers are numb.  I'm a mess....

Now to your question....  As far as belonging to your local club, I guess that would be up to them.  I'm sure some may be gun shy with a new club.

I prefer to have a national club as it brings everyone under one umbrella so to speak. 

1. website
2. membership
3. magazine
4. insurance
5. VOI or national meets
6. Most important - relationship with the manufacturer.

Chrysler or any major manufacturer cannot have a relationship with each individual region.  Too much for them to worry about.  BUT if an association has a unified voice with the manufacturer, then the relationship with the regions has a better chance of coming together.

The VOA will be as the VCA was set up 20 years ago.  The National Association serves the regions, not the other way around. The current VCA has turned the tables so that the regions are subservient to national.  The VOA will not be that way.     


These are basically the same talking points as the VCA touts for membership.    Deja Vu?

1.  The website can easily exist without control of all finances from the top down
2.  I see no problem with membership issues at all should the regions be somewhat autonomous from the national club.  All local regions have their own database of members now (done by members for free) National would have theirs too. We already have a Pay Pal account which we all pay into for our local events co pay.  No big deal to add the annual dues in there. Matter of fact, it's already set up for 2014
3.  The magazine could always be subscribed to by anyone in the world..for the same price as the VCA charged it's members.  Zero advantage to members there
4.  The insurance has always been a bit nebulous for coverage and really covers very little. Basically a hold harmless for the national if I remember right.  I don't think we need it locally
5. VOI or national meets:  Easily planned through a common website sponsored by the national club to which the regions belong in sub forums...like most every car forum does.
6.  The relationship with the manufacturer is a 2 way street.  In reality, the main reason any car company has a relationship with a car club is to sell more product.  The halo car audience has the wherewithall to do that.  Again, the website is the common bond for all...including the manufacturer.  Mixing the VCA car club with the manufacturer didn't work so well on the VCA internet forum.  It led to some of the censorship which ensued over there. 

The regions were always somewhat subservient to the VCA...even 20 years ago.  All local regions should be able to have their own rules, regs, and dues structure...with no interference or mandates from the national club.  The national club should have zero say in how local regions conduct their business.


  Good points Robert.  As far as National collecting the dues.... it does make it easier on the regions for the national organization to take the membership payments, do the paperwork for the membership, giving the regions the website access for membership, etc.

The monthly direct deposit I would like to implement would force the national club to work within its budget. No more holding the regions membership dues because national needs money to pay for this or that. The VCA robbing Peter to pay Paul is bull shit.

You mention the senario of someone getting banned then national says they can't go to regional event.  Well, all I can tell you with my experience being banned is that my Ohio members pretty much told national to go f*** themselves.  I'm welcome at anything the Ohio Viper Club does. Im sure you have no problems going to your Texas Region events. Heck, I'm one of the main guys that puts things together in the Ohio Region. LOL The Ohio Viper Club members voted to go with the new VOA starting Jan 1, 2014.

I don't see the same garbage happening with the VOA as happened with the VCA.

All I ask is for people to give the VOA a chance, I think you will be impressed with what you see. Just give us a chance.


National collecting dues:  see above.  I see zero advantage and only added administrative cost
Website access to a CAR forum should be open for anyone who happens there...that's the way car forums work...at the least the dozen or so I've been on.  There are no secret corners closed to non-believers.
Your national monthly deposit only idea only complicates a very simple process at the local level.  There is absolutely no reason to funnel dues to a national source and then have it partially redistributed on a monthly basis.  This is especially true for areas like ours which only have a 6 month driving season.  A set monthly disbursement isn't going to get it done.  So then what?  Different amounts for different regions based on snow cover?  SO much simpler to just have the local regions collect their own money and those that want to contribute to the national club will do so.

I'll bet a good meal, our club waits for the dust to clear before making any decisions to join. I will be opposed to any structure which operates from the top down for money ...instead of the bottom up.  IMO, our club has no sense of loss or floundering without the VCA. Our Viper life didn't change one whit.  I feel we've finally liberated ourselves and see no reason to enter back into another complicated, very expensive mish mash of rules and regs and money disbursement.  With all due respect to those leading the new team, many were big supporters of the BS which has been going on for many years.  Yes, everyone has the ability to change positions over time and hopefully that's happened, but I fail to see the advantage of setting up a very similar structure as regards funding.  Let it work from the bottom up.  If it's a good thing, it will flourish.

Steve

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daytonprowler
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« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2013, 06:43:45 AM »

I appreciate the answers.
After I was banned, I didn't attend the local events as I didn't want to give the Marshall's any excuse to withhold funds from the Houston region. Your's is a different situation as you are/were the region President.

As I told Janni in a post about a week ago...you have my vote and support for a new club.

Thank you.
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Steve 00RT/10
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« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2013, 07:58:15 AM »

I just paid my local club dues for 2014

Steve
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« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2013, 11:50:46 AM »

I just paid my local club dues for 2014

Steve

Nat VCA doesn't allow that - right? 

So your club is waiting out the year although it has resigned from the national?
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2013, 12:13:19 PM »

Nat VCA doesn't allow that - right? 

So your club is waiting out the year although it has resigned from the national?

We pulled the pin from the VCA when I posted it...whatever day that was.  We are our own entity at this point. We have no reason to join anything else right now. ....Not belonging to a national body certainly has no bearing on any events we do as a club. We'll let the smoke clear and see what direction this all goes in.  I've stated my position on the whole thing above here

Steve
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« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2013, 05:54:02 PM »

Lambda Car Club Internationl is a car club for LGBT people.  Founded back in 1984 by an editor of Hemmings Motor News.

I must be living in my own little bubble.  I had to Google it, I honestly thought you were talking about LGB Trains.  Sorry for the glimpse inside my head, now back in my bubble.
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2013, 07:24:11 PM »

Current map showing the demise of the VCA.  I see 2 regions have decided to stay VCA ...  I guess members from them can join other regions so that they can be part of the BIG car club ...    :lol:    :eatspopcorn:

I can add that the UK club will be joining the VOA and there will probably be a NEW French chapter as well! 



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« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2013, 07:44:09 PM »

Here's a quote from an email I received from a Northern Florida member and it should explain why they are staying VCA ...    :idk:

"Quick reply, the north Florida region did not get offered a vote. We were simply emailed that there were some issues in the club and that things were going to be better than before. I guess Cathy doesn't think people around here get any other information."

I presume that most of you already know this?  I am thinking that without any word from Sweden or Japan, they will also go with VOA and since W Cda region is merely waiting for the votes to be counted (I was told by an officer that it looks like there's more than enough votes for VOA) they will be VOA next year (with me).  Add that the UK and the new French region ... the VCA is no longer "International"  or perhaps I should say "won't be International after Dec"   :P

Ordering your appointed Director to not tell anyone what the otpions are was a good call Chris (Dan?) or you'd be down to 1 region ... so far.  Asking for membership dues 3 months early is a stroke of genius Chris (Dan?).  Although Cathy doesn't say where the next VCA VOI (I'm not going) is going to be I would suggest N Florida?   :lol:   maybe Kansas at Chris's house?  Not sure what's with the President's region yet ...  I guess numbers could change but this sure shows where the support isn't.
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« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2013, 03:03:36 AM »

Add that the UK and the new French region ... the VCA is no longer "International" ....

 :headscratch: "A new French region"  :headscratch:

ViperPassion is a independant association which gathering french passionate members.

Some of us are VCA members (less than 5 members  :o ) . Perhaps they'll continue to be VCA members.
Some of them will certainly change and become VOA members.
All cases are possible.
We don't care about this situation.

ViperPassion is composed of free members.

The main idea in our philosophy is : "ViperPassion Association is independant and will stay independant."

Every VIPER owner is welcome !! :2thumbsup:

Michel.
President Of ViperPassion

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