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The VIPER Garage  |  Generation-specific Viper Forums  |  Gen 5 (Striker) SRT Viper GTS  |  Conner plant to shut down for 2 months because of sluggish sales
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Author Topic: Conner plant to shut down for 2 months because of sluggish sales  (Read 6162 times)
RTTTTed
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Viper Nation - ezine
« on: March 18, 2014, 10:26:45 PM »

Hitting the news.  Not selling enough to continue full plant production this year.  Maybe the Vette style look like a real Viper with only 430bhp and elcheapo parts needs to be built and see if Viper sales can go to a million a year like the cheap junker vettes?  Of course the cheapo Viper would have to kick the cheapo vette's ass badly to continue on with the tradition of building the fastest every car out there ...

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automobiles/srts-viper-seems-to-be-losing-its-venom.html/?a=viewall

http://detroit.jalopnik.com/chrysler-is-slowing-down-viper-production-since-you-won-1546532708/@zacestrada?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebook&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/17/2014-srt-viper-gts-review/

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Sybil TF
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 05:29:23 AM »

It's all about money. Vette is way outselling because it is cheap, mass ,produced. Looks racy and probably can be modded to get close to Viper power. Plus the economy is in the tank.

I like the Viper because I want a car that is unique and isn't on every street corner. I hate corvette's interior and tailights. But I like the gen 2 best of them all and looks a lot like a gen 5 soo........I 'll keep my 96gts.

I'm quoting myself.  :idk:
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 07:58:12 AM by Sybil TF » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 06:45:20 AM »

I like the Corvette, really nice car.  However.... Given the choice, I would take the Viper in every instance
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Currently.... waiting on a motor!

« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 09:50:05 AM »

Vettes are nice, they are just less of a "race car" than a viper.
The new 2015 Z06 will be a beast, 625hp and 635 ft-lb.
http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-z06-supercar-reveal.html

Agreed with jeff, I'm a viper guy personally, but I have several friends with VERY fast vettes in town. Theres a TT Z06, a Calloway, and a few built motor vettes that run big hp.
Will be interesting to line up with a few this summer to see what's what!
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 11:44:18 AM »

In a word:  Price

The new Vette is a good looking car...as is the Mustang product.  They are just over half the price of the Viper.  The Viper is the most exclusive of the bunch...but at $40-$70K more money, it priced itself out the market they were in.  I don't think the economy has anything to do with it.  The economy is overall not that bad and for those with the where with all to buy a Viper, little has changed in their life.  If anything they are well ahead (or should be) of where they were 4-5 years ago.

Not good for the Viper brand going forward. 

Steve
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 12:13:53 PM »

Brand loyalty will always benefit Chevy in sales.  Mopar is so far down on the list it's crazy. 
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 12:27:11 PM »

Brand loyalty will always benefit Chevy in sales.  Mopar is so far down on the list it's crazy.

I don't think brand loyalty extends to a $40-$70K difference in price.  Common sense starts to take over at some point. I've had 2 Vipers..one new.  They are unique and we've thoroughly enjoyed our 120,000 Viper miles, but spending over $120K out the door for a new Viper is not even a remote thought for me. The differential in cost between these cars far exceeds what it was in 2000 when we bought our new RT/10.
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 08:43:07 PM »

I could easily buy several vettes in place of either of my Vipers.

Brand loyalty says that since Vette isn't a Dodge ... I won't buy one.  - I hate it when stuff breaks down, especially GMs.

I do like that my Vipers are represented by haveing the fastest times and setting the most records in recent years.  Both my Vipers are modified and double the stock Vipers with the Gen 2 "flaws" all perfected meaning that my cars are similar to new, but much much faster.  Since vettes can't keep up, it would be a serious disadvantage to start with a vette ...

I used to be a Classic Muscle car guy and still have several (440 Duster pro streeter, 71 Demon 340 4spd, Dart, Mirada etc) that I have for sale as well as a few Turbo 2.2 Mopars in the yard.  They can't equal the joy I get from driving my Stealth TT or my Roe GTS so ....   

Vipers are very expensive, even now that the market has dropped and our Supercars are devalued.  If a Gen 5 was as popular to me as my personally modified GTSs I would work an extra year and buy one of those.  Unfortunately, they don't modify as well as the older Vipers and aren't as fast as automatically beating every other car out there.  Once in a while I don't win 1st or second with my modified Vipers ... I certainly wouldn't be getting podium finishes every event I entered with a Gen 5 so I'll keep working my Gen 2 cars.

Life is fast, hate to be behind :idk:

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1999 1200rwhp TT GTS - ART, 2001 Roe sc GTS- (4 sale), 440 Duster restomod (sold), 3x Stealth TTs, 92 Daytona IROC with T3, 580whp/1080wtq Cummins pickup.
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2014, 10:28:19 AM »

I could easily buy several vettes in place of either of my Vipers.

Brand loyalty says that since Vette isn't a Dodge ... I won't buy one.  - I hate it when stuff breaks down, especially GMs.

I do like that my Vipers are represented by haveing the fastest times and setting the most records in recent years.  Both my Vipers are modified and double the stock Vipers with the Gen 2 "flaws" all perfected meaning that my cars are similar to new, but much much faster.  Since vettes can't keep up, it would be a serious disadvantage to start with a vette ...

I used to be a Classic Muscle car guy and still have several (440 Duster pro streeter, 71 Demon 340 4spd, Dart, Mirada etc) that I have for sale as well as a few Turbo 2.2 Mopars in the yard.  They can't equal the joy I get from driving my Stealth TT or my Roe GTS so ....   

Vipers are very expensive, even now that the market has dropped and our Supercars are devalued.  If a Gen 5 was as popular to me as my personally modified GTSs I would work an extra year and buy one of those.  Unfortunately, they don't modify as well as the older Vipers and aren't as fast as automatically beating every other car out there.  Once in a while I don't win 1st or second with my modified Vipers ... I certainly wouldn't be getting podium finishes every event I entered with a Gen 5 so I'll keep working my Gen 2 cars.

Life is fast, hate to be behind :idk:

Yeah but you could also easily buy several Gen II Vipers for what your Vipers are worth :)

....Used as the vast majority of the population drives...GMs don't break any easier than the rest.

You are an anomaly Ted.  One of a kind.  I've never heard of anyone in my life that's had as many Mopar vehicles as you -- coupled with your insatiable need for HP and speed!  Unfortunately, you represent an infinitesimal segment of the car buying population.  Being the extreme Mopar guy that you are, It is a bit ironic that because you don't think the new car is as worthy for mods as our older GEN IIs, you will be part of the reason the Viper may die due to nobody buying them new. There will certainly be no GEN VI coming down the pike if they only sell a handful of the current model. 

Steve
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2014, 03:44:54 PM »

Brand loyalty will always benefit Chevy in sales.  Mopar is so far down on the list it's crazy.

Brand loyalty has never produced a better product.  In fact, I could argue brand loyalty produced the opposite ...and allowed OEMs to sit on their haunches and collect more profits while not improving their product to stay competitive.  The big awakening there was the early 80s import restrictions.  The Big 3 weren't making much of a product in those days.

Mopar is only now regaining some chops in the QC department.  They lagged the rest badly for the last many years.  I would put the blame more on management (bean counters/poor long term vision from upper level management) ...than the designers and engineers.  Those people always want to do good things, but are hamstrung by forces who think they know more.  Shareholder return and greed drove the ship. 

I have 4 brands in the garage. I've never been brand loyal.

Steve
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 09:05:05 PM »

Yeah but you could also easily buy several Gen II Vipers for what your Vipers are worth :)

....Used as the vast majority of the population drives...GMs don't break any easier than the rest.

You are an anomaly Ted.  One of a kind.  I've never heard of anyone in my life that's had as many Mopar vehicles as you -- coupled with your insatiable need for HP and speed!  Unfortunately, you represent an infinitesimal segment of the car buying population.  Being the extreme Mopar guy that you are, It is a bit ironic that because you don't think the new car is as worthy for mods as our older GEN IIs, you will be part of the reason the Viper may die due to nobody buying them new. There will certainly be no GEN VI coming down the pike if they only sell a handful of the current model. 

Steve

I suppose I mostly agree with your post Steve.  But it is the very small percentage of us that set the world records with our fast machines.  Mopar has set the top rung for cars that race alone (because of class rules to make things "Fair")  Hemi had no equal, the winged warriors had no equal, the Nurburgring ACR has no equal. SS/A, SS/B are Hemi only cars etc.  GM specialized in aluminium low performace "racing heads" for their low hp 396 for example.  Ford beat Dodge at most Nascar events and even built a couple drag cars that were close to the Hemi.  Only competition event that I know GM excelled at was the early Road Rallies with their 302ci Z28.  A tiny performance engine to race against 289s and 273s  LOL. 

When a corporation builds the fastest cars in the world, they deserve respect for that.  When Chrysler had the Tremec transmissions designed for the Viper they eventually found their way into the Vettes (and Mustangs) proving that other brands now can equal Mopar in reliability.  It's where my brand loyalty comes from.

I have always been upholding of the largeest engine properly modified is more reliable and powerful than any smaller engine modified the same.  Since the smallest Viper engine is 8L and newer is larger ... it requires more modifications to a smaller engine to make the power of a Viper engine.  I still live by that theory and my favorite engines were always the 440 engines.  ZR1 engines are smaller than the little 427ci Z06 engines (7.2L?) 

The new Gen 5 Viper is being built according to the magazine articles and is smoother and easier to control.  Just because a few of us have enough seat time and skills to pilot our cars without the nannies is no reason for the "masses" to buy an older Viper.  I like the looks of the new Viper about as much as my Classic GTSs, but don't like the $10,000+ engine control modules before getting started on modifications.  As you pointed out, very few people are after setting world records of just always wanting to send the competition home with no wins so the modification limits shouldn't slow down sales of the 90% that are more than happy with the "other supercar" killing 640bhp.  I am hoping that the nannies can help the amateur drivers to come out and spank the Ferrari and Lambo guys even without having to spend a lot of time in the driver's seat as a student.  Most rich guys don't have time to learn to drive extreme cars so they need the nannies so that they can compete at supercar levels?  The superb nannies should be a good seller for those people.
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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2014, 09:38:01 PM »

I suppose I mostly agree with your post Steve.  But it is the very small percentage of us that set the world records with our fast machines.  Mopar has set the top rung for cars that race alone (because of class rules to make things "Fair")  Hemi had no equal, the winged warriors had no equal, the Nurburgring ACR has no equal. SS/A, SS/B are Hemi only cars etc.  GM specialized in aluminium low performace "racing heads" for their low hp 396 for example.  Ford beat Dodge at most Nascar events and even built a couple drag cars that were close to the Hemi.  Only competition event that I know GM excelled at was the early Road Rallies with their 302ci Z28.  A tiny performance engine to race against 289s and 273s  LOL. 

When a corporation builds the fastest cars in the world, they deserve respect for that.  When Chrysler had the Tremec transmissions designed for the Viper they eventually found their way into the Vettes (and Mustangs) proving that other brands now can equal Mopar in reliability.  It's where my brand loyalty comes from.

I have always been upholding of the largeest engine properly modified is more reliable and powerful than any smaller engine modified the same.  Since the smallest Viper engine is 8L and newer is larger ... it requires more modifications to a smaller engine to make the power of a Viper engine.  I still live by that theory and my favorite engines were always the 440 engines.  ZR1 engines are smaller than the little 427ci Z06 engines (7.2L?) 

The new Gen 5 Viper is being built according to the magazine articles and is smoother and easier to control.  Just because a few of us have enough seat time and skills to pilot our cars without the nannies is no reason for the "masses" to buy an older Viper.  I like the looks of the new Viper about as much as my Classic GTSs, but don't like the $10,000+ engine control modules before getting started on modifications.  As you pointed out, very few people are after setting world records of just always wanting to send the competition home with no wins so the modification limits shouldn't slow down sales of the 90% that are more than happy with the "other supercar" killing 640bhp.  I am hoping that the nannies can help the amateur drivers to come out and spank the Ferrari and Lambo guys even without having to spend a lot of time in the driver's seat as a student.  Most rich guys don't have time to learn to drive extreme cars so they need the nannies so that they can compete at supercar levels?  The superb nannies should be a good seller for those people.


I respect your abilities and passion for HP/speed Ted...and I agree with most of your post except that you are speaking in the racing mode again.  ...that doesn't sell cars to the masses.  I think $120K a pop pushed them out of the market.  The sales numbers speak for themselves.  The new car has not sold well since inception.  Too bad.  It's well made and better than the rest...just not $40-$70K better ....at least that's what the market seems to be saying

I could be wrong, but my take on the Borg Warner T-56 tranny was that GM contributed some to the project early on as they were looking for something beefier for their products.  Roy Sjoberg was a 25 year GM engineer before jumping ship there.  Zora Duntov was his boss for several years of Corvette design and they were close personal friends.   The original Viper was built on a shoestring budget and they were always looking for ways to cut cost.....thus we have Mitsubishi ;) mirrors and a basic JTEC (JEEP/truck controller) pcm.  .....Back brakes that crossed with a Dodge Monaco...and so on.

Steve
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Viper Nation - ezine
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2014, 09:27:28 PM »

I definitely agree with Most of your post too   :D   The pre 2001 rear calipers were a mistake.  From a Eagle Gallant I was told, but they can be replaced or larger pistons installed to fix that.  The anti toe mounting etc was upgraded and each viper had many serious improvments in power design and handling.  As you've noticed I do love to upgrade my cars for better performance and have done a lot to make my Gen 2 cars keep up to the newer monsters.

The price of the Gen 5 $100,000Cdn I read, is the same as the Gen 4 Viper at $100,000Cdn.  My personal view was that SRT should build about 25 - 50 "Tuner monsters" and sell them at $500,000 with 900whp and continue reign as "King of the supercars".  My TT on low boost and pump gas easily spanks Veyron SS.  The Bugatti factory team that came to Mojave Mile with Hot Rod magazine ran 198 - 200mph in a standing mile.  On pump gas my pump gas TT (ART built) Viper went 215mph in about 3/4 mile with RWD on elcheapo Hoosiers.  The Veyron SS being several million dollars and a 'reported' 1100bhp is easily beaten by a $100,000 Dodge with less than $250,000 into it.  If the SRT engineers were given the money and permission to build a 1100bhp Viper ... 

 :idk:  it boggles the mind.  Dick Winkles might build a few dozen DOHC supercharged Vipers?  That would be my fantasy. 

I used to have a life dream of building an AC Cobra type sportscar closer to the Daytona coupe that Shelby built back then.  Fastback, ducktail spoiler, monster engine, lightweight with a fwe lighweight creature comforts that was the ultimate looking supercar.  I learned to hand lay up fiberglass and carve molds etc.  But then Dodge built the Viper GTS.  I thought of it first, but they did build it better than the one I would have built.   :2thumbsup:  Now, building my own supercar would be redundant and it wouldn't equal any of my Vipers I'm sorry to say.

Herb Helbig said that they had contacted (contracted?) Borg Warner to design a 6 speed for the 400hp Viper when they started designing the Viper ... BW crapped out and didn't come across with the goods so the Viper team had to find a trans that was available and the Tremec was the best around at that time.  Each generation of Viper got a better transmission and Mustang as well as the few powerful vettes benefited from that.  The vette's transmission is in the rear end ... 

I hope that it's OK that I'm a little (OK, a lot) biased, but it's my experience so far. 

GM building the worst engines, trans and rear ends cost them my respect.  $500+ from a GM "Goodwrench" dealership for a double wheel alignment which had a redo because it slipped first hard pull on the brakes didn't impress me either.  AutoPro did a better job and charged me $129 which included a 1 year guarantee!  But ... I admit that the newer GMs are a thousand times better than the old ones where a broken axles would cause the wheels to fall off.
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2014, 09:15:15 AM »

I definitely agree with Most of your post too   :D   The pre 2001 rear calipers were a mistake.  From a Eagle Gallant I was told, but they can be replaced or larger pistons installed to fix that.  The anti toe mounting etc was upgraded and each viper had many serious improvments in power design and handling.  As you've noticed I do love to upgrade my cars for better performance and have done a lot to make my Gen 2 cars keep up to the newer monsters.

The price of the Gen 5 $100,000Cdn I read, is the same as the Gen 4 Viper at $100,000Cdn.  My personal view was that SRT should build about 25 - 50 "Tuner monsters" and sell them at $500,000 with 900whp and continue reign as "King of the supercars".  My TT on low boost and pump gas easily spanks Veyron SS.  The Bugatti factory team that came to Mojave Mile with Hot Rod magazine ran 198 - 200mph in a standing mile.  On pump gas my pump gas TT (ART built) Viper went 215mph in about 3/4 mile with RWD on elcheapo Hoosiers.  The Veyron SS being several million dollars and a 'reported' 1100bhp is easily beaten by a $100,000 Dodge with less than $250,000 into it.  If the SRT engineers were given the money and permission to build a 1100bhp Viper ... 

 :idk:  it boggles the mind.  Dick Winkles might build a few dozen DOHC supercharged Vipers?  That would be my fantasy. 

I used to have a life dream of building an AC Cobra type sportscar closer to the Daytona coupe that Shelby built back then.  Fastback, ducktail spoiler, monster engine, lightweight with a fwe lighweight creature comforts that was the ultimate looking supercar.  I learned to hand lay up fiberglass and carve molds etc.  But then Dodge built the Viper GTS.  I thought of it first, but they did build it better than the one I would have built.   :2thumbsup:  Now, building my own supercar would be redundant and it wouldn't equal any of my Vipers I'm sorry to say.

Herb Helbig said that they had contacted (contracted?) Borg Warner to design a 6 speed for the 400hp Viper when they started designing the Viper ... BW crapped out and didn't come across with the goods so the Viper team had to find a trans that was available and the Tremec was the best around at that time.  Each generation of Viper got a better transmission and Mustang as well as the few powerful vettes benefited from that.  The vette's transmission is in the rear end ... 

I hope that it's OK that I'm a little (OK, a lot) biased, but it's my experience so far. 

GM building the worst engines, trans and rear ends cost them my respect.  $500+ from a GM "Goodwrench" dealership for a double wheel alignment which had a redo because it slipped first hard pull on the brakes didn't impress me either.  AutoPro did a better job and charged me $129 which included a 1 year guarantee!  But ... I admit that the newer GMs are a thousand times better than the old ones where a broken axles would cause the wheels to fall off.

Yeah but:  I don't anyone who paid $100K for a GEN IV.  The MSRP for a GEN IV in 2008 was about $84K and topped out around $90K in 2010.  Pricing on the GEN V GTS is $123K.  No comparison  The GEN V starts at a $100K for a 'base' model.  Nothing you'd be happy with...and goes on up to $140K or so.  A multitude of options are where the $ are.  Paying $110-$130K for a new one is not far off the mark.

Sorry..but I don't think any car company you may deal with is going to build you a one off monster to spank all else on the road ;)  It just ain't in the cards...never was.  The Bugatti is a production car :).  Yours are not.

I've had many GM products the last 46 years.....never had a mechanical issue like you talk about...nor has anyone I know.

Not sure your tranny info is all correct. 

Here's my take on the whole market segment...from a conversation with some friends a day or so ago.  It was the result of the production stoppage article. 

....Marketing may well play a part, but I think the price is the main driver.  The comparable GM product ZR1 only sold 404 units out of  total Corvette production of 11,647 in 2012.  ZO6s not much better at 478

I just picked this site 1st...I didn't verify it anywhere else

http://www.lsxtv.com/news/the-official-2012-corvette-production-numbers-are-here/

Given the vast resources of GM for marketing and past Corvette sales numbers..the amount of ZR1s sold should be much higher relatively speaking.  My guess is that Mustangs and Camaros etc.   ...that sell for substantially less...with VERY good performance numbers are filling the need for speed for a majority of buyers.  A base GT with 420 HP goes to 60 in 4.3 seconds and has a base price of $31,200.  The top line 662HP car sells for under $60K and goes to 60 in 3.5 seconds or so. 

The Viper is in a class by itself and for many years it couldn't be touched on the street.  Nothing could come close. It had the power and the wow factor.  Not so anymore.  The wow factor is what remains.  99% of Viper buyers will never experience the limits of the car.  On the street, unless you risk going to jail, there's not much bragging rights to have anymore.  If you couple this with the fact that a whole other tier of lower income buyers have driven down the price of GEN I,II,III, and even IV cars to some extent....it drops the bar even further.  Many can now have a wow factor Viper and power at a substantially discounted price.   Many others can now buy new alternate products and get their har blown back for pennies on the HP compared to the Viper.

I hope I'm wrong, but it seems the market for new high dollar Vipers and Corvettes is very small.
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2014, 09:24:01 AM »

Very interesting discussion.  Far away from the technical aspects, I think the dealer network us 95% of the problem, (excluding the crappy marketing efforts by (SRT).  I also think the ZR1 numbers bring in to question, how large is this market segment?
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